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FNORD23
QUOTE


The class warfare issue started when an admin (these are higher-level editors who have been given special superpowers, such as being able to protect, or lock down a page) noticed heavy activity on the Obama page. A flurry of edits -- often on mind-numbingly small details, such as whether to add a "Jr.," to Obama's name -- were constantly being made and then reverted by other editors, with no reason listed other than "sock puppet." A sock puppet is a false identity; essentially, people create sock puppets by registering as editors under a series of different names, usually for the purpose of hiding their identities or to build the appearance of consensus on an issue when there is really only one advocate.

The admin, suspecting some kind of trouble, put the Obama page into "semi-protection," that is locked it down temporarily in order to find out what was going on. This led to a serious of furious exchanges on the discussion page, with allegations of abuse of power by the admin, and anger that this had been done without bothering to understand that the "edit-warring" was not a real problem, but simply the result of (in what is so far the phrase of the year, and unlikely to be challenged for that title) "a rolling band of disruptive socks."

Things got even worse when another admin stopped by, studied the situation, and advised that the protection be taken off. The first admin agreed and lifted the lock. Now people began to call out the first admin for only listening to other admins. As one editor put it: "It is most definitely a good thing that us lowly plebeians don't have any pull with an elite admin like yourself. Imagine if you had to listen when uppity non-admins challenged your actions. That would be dreadfully unnerving, mixing with the baser classes and all." Heavens to Murgatroyd, what would Barack have to say about all this? (probably, "Uh, I don't use Jr. with my name. Thanks for asking.")



Wiki Wars
Kato
That's a really interesting article. The unnamed admin causing trouble in the article is the poodle's poodle himself, Jossi.

The writer also describes Ron Paul as the "darling of the internet". Presumably Paul's libertarian profile chimes with this sprawling American geek culture that we come across everyday on the net? I imagine Paul would get Der Jimbo's vote, judging by Der Jimbo's frivolous Ayn Randian past.
Disillusioned Lackey
I think that it is an amazingly good sign that the Huffington Post is coming to the realization that Wikipedia is crap.

Or that it is run like crap.

The Post is a central gathering point for the media at this juncture. This kind of awareness raising is huge.
Cedric
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 3:17am) *

I think that it is an amazingly good sign that the Huffington Post is coming to the realization that Wikipedia is crap.

Or that it is run like crap.

The Post is a central gathering point for the media at this juncture. This kind of awareness raising is huge.

The Huffington Post has known for a while now.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Cedric @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 1:00pm) *

The Huffington Post has known for a while now.

How's that?
Cedric
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 2:14pm) *

QUOTE(Cedric @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 1:00pm) *

The Huffington Post has known for a while now.

How's that?

They have run critical stories on WP before. I'm sure we have had at least one prior thread on one of their stories, and they show up from time to time in the newsbot scrapings.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Cedric @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 2:18pm) *

QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 2:14pm) *

QUOTE(Cedric @ Thu 23rd August 2007, 1:00pm) *

The Huffington Post has known for a while now.

How's that?

They have run critical stories on WP before. I'm sure we have had at least one prior thread on one of their stories, and they show up from time to time in the newsbot scrapings.

That's interesting. Come to think of it, the Wikipedia media section on WR is pretty good. As are quite a few of the observations here.

It must goad more than one person, secretly, that this place is a better source of information than the Signpost (which is very much like a high school newspaper).
alienus
QUOTE(Kato @ Wed 22nd August 2007, 4:09am) *

That's a really interesting article. The unnamed admin causing trouble in the article is the poodle's poodle himself, Jossi.


I'm familiar with the strange case of Jossi. Basically, he's a one-man Team Cult. He's a cultist himself, and he runs around supporting anyone accused (however rightly) of cultism. He is a frequent ally of Team Rand, of course, and has a special love for me, personally.

Al
Kato
QUOTE(alienus @ Fri 24th August 2007, 10:47pm) *

QUOTE(Kato @ Wed 22nd August 2007, 4:09am) *

That's a really interesting article. The unnamed admin causing trouble in the article is the poodle's poodle himself, Jossi.


I'm familiar with the strange case of Jossi. Basically, he's a one-man Team Cult. He's a cultist himself, and he runs around supporting anyone accused (however rightly) of cultism. He is a frequent ally of Team Rand, of course, and has a special love for me, personally.

Al


This Ayn Rand fetishisation fascinates me. In the intellectual world I've visited through my life, if someone said they supported the ideologies of Ayn Rand, the response would be invariably "Who?" Then if they described the philosophies in detail, people would be sniggering and groaning with disbelief and the naivety that lies behind it. Just the nonsense of it.

Surely these ideas faded years ago? When it became apparent that John Forbes Nash was merely "bit confused", or when studies of human behaviour during the cold war were revealed to be deeply flawed, or at least when it became apparent that shock therapy economics had caused devastation in the former Soviet bloc and much of the third world. Mimbo Jimbo is just sooooo old maaan.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Kato @ Fri 24th August 2007, 4:07pm) *

This Ayn Rand fetishisation fascinates me. In the intellectual world I've visited through my life, if someone said they supported the ideologies of Ayn Rand, the response would be invariably "Who?" Then if they described the philosophies in detail, people would be sniggering and groaning with disbelief and the naivety that lies behind it. Just the nonsense of it.

Surely these ideas faded years ago? When it became apparent that John Forbes Nash was merely "bit confused", or when studies of human behaviour during the cold war were revealed to be deeply flawed, or at least when it became apparent that shock therapy economics had caused devastation in the former Soviet bloc and much of the third world. Mimbo Jimbo is just sooooo old maaan.

From what I gather, Wales is a follower of Rand because he like the book "We the Living" and started this weird idea that he could be a Randian. He morphed it into some weird form of justifying whatever, on the basis of libertarianism. But it isn't libertarian at all.
Cedric
QUOTE(Kato @ Fri 24th August 2007, 5:07pm) *

This Ayn Rand fetishisation fascinates me. In the intellectual world I've visited through my life, if someone said they supported the ideologies of Ayn Rand, the response would be invariably "Who?" Then if they described the philosophies in detail, people would be sniggering and groaning with disbelief and the naivety that lies behind it. Just the nonsense of it.

Surely these ideas faded years ago? When it became apparent that John Forbes Nash was merely "bit confused", or when studies of human behaviour during the cold war were revealed to be deeply flawed, or at least when it became apparent that shock therapy economics had caused devastation in the former Soviet bloc and much of the third world. Mimbo Jimbo is just sooooo old maaan.

I dunno. Is it any more incomprehensible than than jumbled musings of a penny-a-word sci-fi hack that later became to be labeled as "Scientology"?
LamontStormstar
QUOTE(FNORD23 @ Wed 22nd August 2007, 12:21am) *

QUOTE


The class warfare issue started when an admin (these are higher-level editors who have been given special superpowers, such as being able to protect, or lock down a page) noticed heavy activity on the Obama page. A flurry of edits -- often on mind-numbingly small details, such as whether to add a "Jr.," to Obama's name -- were constantly being made and then reverted by other editors, with no reason listed other than "sock puppet." A sock puppet is a false identity; essentially, people create sock puppets by registering as editors under a series of different names, usually for the purpose of hiding their identities or to build the appearance of consensus on an issue when there is really only one advocate.

The admin, suspecting some kind of trouble, put the Obama page into "semi-protection," that is locked it down temporarily in order to find out what was going on. This led to a serious of furious exchanges on the discussion page, with allegations of abuse of power by the admin, and anger that this had been done without bothering to understand that the "edit-warring" was not a real problem, but simply the result of (in what is so far the phrase of the year, and unlikely to be challenged for that title) "a rolling band of disruptive socks."

Things got even worse when another admin stopped by, studied the situation, and advised that the protection be taken off. The first admin agreed and lifted the lock. Now people began to call out the first admin for only listening to other admins. As one editor put it: "It is most definitely a good thing that us lowly plebeians don't have any pull with an elite admin like yourself. Imagine if you had to listen when uppity non-admins challenged your actions. That would be dreadfully unnerving, mixing with the baser classes and all." Heavens to Murgatroyd, what would Barack have to say about all this? (probably, "Uh, I don't use Jr. with my name. Thanks for asking.")



Wiki Wars



It sounds like the admin protected m:The Wrong Version and then didn't know anyone in the talk but tended to trust another admin.
LamontStormstar
QUOTE

Huffington Post has some observations on Wikipedia
And obstreperous Admins


Now I don't know what obstreperous means and my tiny pocket dictionary doesn't either, but it sounds bad... Scandalous, in fact!
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(LamontStormstar @ Fri 24th August 2007, 8:07pm) *

QUOTE

Huffington Post has some observations on Wikipedia
And obstreperous Admins


Now I don't know what obstreperous means and my tiny pocket dictionary doesn't either, but it sounds bad... Scandalous, in fact!


Same word as obnoxious, but think of a screaming kicking 3 year old, and you've got the picture.
jorge
In case people here didn't know Wales was a regular poster on the humanities.philosophy.objectivism Usenet group and apparently ran his own mailing list.

He was mentioned quite regularly there before the invention of Wikipedia LINK

His profile that lists all of his posts

Given that SV studied philosophy at Cambridge I imagine it is quite possible that she was a fellow poster on that group and/or a subscriber to Wales' mailing list.
Kato
QUOTE(jorge @ Sun 26th August 2007, 11:45pm) *

In case people here didn't know Wales was a regular poster on the humanities.philosophy.objectivism Usenet group and apparently ran his own mailing list.

He was mentioned quite regularly there before the invention of Wikipedia LINK

His profile that lists all of his posts

Given that SV studied philosophy at Cambridge I imagine it is quite possible that she was a fellow poster on that group and/or a subscriber to Wales' mailing list.

Anyone wanting to know about this absolute nonsense Randian movement should look to the ridiculous Leonard Peikoff, head of the Ayn Rand institute.
FORUM Image

Watch this long, but insane speech by the absurd Peikoff. At one point he advocates nuking the middle east. At around the 19 mins mark Piekoff describes how the US should specifically target innocent women and children, at which point some punter gasps audibly. Piekoff demands that the gasper is removed to murmurings of support from the Objectivist, Randian cult members.
jorge
QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 26th August 2007, 11:54pm) *

Anyone wanting to know about this absolute nonsense Randian movement should look to the ridiculous Leonard Peikoff, head of the Ayn Rand institute.

Watch this long, but insane speech by the absurd Peikoff. At one point he advocates nuking the middle east.

It's no surprise that Wales is associated with those sort of beliefs. What is surprising is the media hasn't picked up on it.
alienus
I don't have a reference handy, but I seem to remember that Jimbo voluntarily hosted some Randist propaganda, even before WP. He's been in this cult for a while now.

Al
Kato
QUOTE(alienus @ Mon 27th August 2007, 2:46am) *

I don't have a reference handy, but I seem to remember that Jimbo voluntarily hosted some Randist propaganda, even before WP. He's been in this cult for a while now.

Al

Der Jimbo certainly did. It was called "Moderated Discussion of Objectivist Philosophy".
QUOTE(jorge @ Sun 26th August 2007, 11:45pm) *

Given that SV studied philosophy at Cambridge I imagine it is quite possible that she was a fellow poster on that group and/or a subscriber to Wales' mailing list.

Nah. Randian hogwash doesn't have much currency outside the US. Certainly not at Cambridge. And SVs liberal-left, almost Trotskyite persona, alongside her interest in religion, is a far cry from Objectivism.
alienus
QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 26th August 2007, 9:56pm) *

Der Jimbo certainly did. It was called "Moderated Discussion of Objectivist Philosophy".


Thank you for digging that up. It's been a while since I had to deal with either academic citations or WP:RS.

Al
Kato
Here's a superb documentary which covers a lot of issues I believe to be relevant. It doesn't mention Rand or WP, but I can't help thinking that it does provide some historical sense of how Objectivism, Wales and WP came to arrive in the same monolith.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3291992041130722257

The whole thing is 3 hours long and the link is to the beginning of part 3. But I strongly recommend it.
jorge
QUOTE(Kato @ Mon 27th August 2007, 3:05am) *

QUOTE(jorge @ Sun 26th August 2007, 11:45pm) *

Given that SV studied philosophy at Cambridge I imagine it is quite possible that she was a fellow poster on that group and/or a subscriber to Wales' mailing list.

Nah. Randian hogwash doesn't have much currency outside the US. Certainly not at Cambridge. And SVs liberal-left, almost Trotskyite persona, alongside her interest in religion, is a far cry from Objectivism.

Just because she might not agree with him doesn't mean she mightn't have debated with him does it?
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