"After repeated deletion from Wikipedia's entry on South Africa's HIV crisis, a government official has been arrested on charges of vandalism."
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=20674§ionid=3510205

THAT is serious vandalism.

Yes, and that's why we should care whether articles are honest and comprehensive. If we let every two-bit faction censor Wikipedia to save itself embarassment and further its goals, many people would get hurt.

Al

Wow "Arrested for vandalism". That's taking Wikipedia way too seriously!

And people wonder why Wikipedia Review exists!

Wikipedia IS serious. Many people actually read what's written for information. But arrested...that's a bit much.

I think that purposeful organized censorship of real information is wrong and those who engage in it should be exposed and held accountable. I am not sure censorship is a crime anywhere, as it is part of how governments and leaders operate all around the world, but vandalism is a different case.

In real life vandalism is a crime as it is a public nuisance. It is nice to see our laws being extended to cover virtual vandalism. It is inappropriate that vandalism online is treated as funny, even though it takes real effort to police and undo, while real life vandalism is crime.

Oh, make no mistake that I think that he SHOULD have been arrested, given that Wikipedia is taken far too seriously.

People who go on to Wikipedia to change truth about something of historical significance, and get away with it, especially when they are in a position where they personally or professionally benefit from it should be facing seriously real life problems if they get caught.

But my point is that Wikipedia shouldn't be taken this seriously.

What should have happened is that they said "Nobody take Wikipedia seriously ever again".

Its really sad that this kind of thing is happening.

Let's count them:

US congress staffers, Australian federal politicians, Hong Kong leader, and now a senior South African government employee.

Yep, its taken pretty seriously alright, and Wikipedia Review's number 1 criticism of Wikipedia, that of truth-changing, is being proven to be really, seriously right.

We've been saying it for close to 2 years, and been ridiculed for close to 2 years. Now finally we see the fruits of our labours.

This is action by an actual state actor, resulting in serious consequences, for some form of speech. That actually is censorship. Not the kind of "censorship" bleeping you hear around the internet. I actually would expect WMF to explain to S.A. authorities how this type alteration is inherent and expected. They (WMF) should protest that this is not vandalism in the "malicious destruction of property" sense. Besides the GFDL allows alterations. It does not qualify that alteration need to be productive. No property has been damaged. It is nonsense. Somebody didn't understand that words in WP don't have normal meanings.

Unless of course WMF is actually claiming it owns the content of the project. That would be an interesting admission for reasons that have nothing to do with the folks in S.A.

TMA! TMA! Too Many Acronyms!

Anyway, what I think Glassbeadgame is saying is that the guy shouldn't be getting arrested (?) because it is censorship to arrest someone for changing truth (?)

I'm not sure at all what Glassbeadgame is saying. Far too many acronyms there for me to be able to make sense of it.

Believe it or not, but this is some kind of weird progress. And it has less to do with Wikipedia, and more to do with Mbeki's policy shifts. Mbeki spent the first what 10 (?) years of his life trying to not only deny that AIDS existed, but proving that it was created by white men to wipe out the continent. He's been interviewed on TV espousing this rot. Thousands died while he diddled with these theories. And when the big US-Euro pharmas coughed up free or low cost AIDS drugs, he hindered their disbursement, or it was so inefficient as to be not useful.

In Africa, pretty much everyone has been affected by AIDS, their family, their sister, their colleague, etc. They have AIDS like we have the flu. It is almost impossible to get work done, as people are dying so fast.

The big countries have been hassling Mbeki for a long time, so this official's going along with the "old policy" of censorship being punished is probably symbolic, as in "looky, looky, we are now publishing real information, please dont cut our funding".

That's what this is. Five years ago, the same guy would be in jail for publishing the CORRECT numbers. Remember most countries dont have free speech.



The SA government is treating it like a publication, which well it should. It doesnt matter who owns it. The difference between there and here (or wherever you are) is that we dont send people to jail for expressing themselves (unless it is Germany and you deny the holocaust, but dont get me started on that).

In order of appearance:

S.A. : South Africa (government)
WMF: Wikimedia Foundation
GFDL: Gnu Free Document License

You know what really happened here?

This was a Wikiscanner effect. And the "arrest" is just a show thing, so the Mbeki government can deny hiding AIDS statistics (again). Theyve been doing it for years, and they were supp

--for Bliss, Mbeki is the leader of South Africa, and has been since Nelson Mandela stepped down. He's doing what a lot of African leaders do which is get in there and overstay his welcome. I'm not sure if he's manipulating elections yet, but that's the usual strategy, as is hiding information as he'd doing, tragically, with AIDS.

The guy was probably editing out facts as part of his job. If it was against the rules, this would have been something he'd have known. Also, the press release about him being "jailed" is indicative that this is a show-event. A real arrest of an official would be hushed up. The press is controlled down there.

Here's what I think:

• Mbekis government is still putting out bad statistics, though they are finally allowing free treatment to be disbursed (thank God). This guy was simply doing his job, as told.
• Then comes Wikiscanner. Suddenly someone checks an IP, and find that the Government of SA was hiding facts. (and wasnt clever enough to login before doing it, duh)
• The press contacts them. Reaction? Oh shit! How did they know?
• They (rightly) fear losing a millions (billons?) of donor grant money, if it is discovered they are still pulling this crap (it has been a huge campaign to get Mbeki to knock it off, and I'm sure the SA government has been threatened with loss of donor funds for poverty assistance etc.)
• So what do they do? Claim the guy was a rogue and throw him in jail.
• The jailing is bogus (as is the claim he acted alone).
• This is just business as usual for these guys. Hand in cookie jar, so they pretend it was someone else's hand

Conclusion: the guy is a stooge. Dont worry about him, he'll be given a bonus in a few years for having played ball. This is a high-profile coverup bullshit game. I anticipate him getting a Minister's post in the future.

That's how it works over there.

I agree with SenseMaker.

Arresting someone for vandalizing Wikipedia is obviously ridiculous and sadly shows what depths South Africa has fallen to.

You guys didnt read my post.

HE WASNT ARRESTED FOR VANDALISM. HE WAS ARRESTED BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT WAS CENSORING INFORMATION, THROUGH HIM, AND THEY GOT CAUGHT WITH WIKISCANNER, SO THEY BLAMED HIM AND ARRESTED HIM.

That government routinely doctors data on AIDS.

This isn't about glorifying Wikipedia. It is about getting caught doctoring data via Wikipedia.

As far as I know S.A. possess a more or less independent judiciary. That means that the prosecution has to prove the elements of the offense. I don't know the exact elements but generally you have to show intent, damage to property and threshold money damages. "Vandalism" in the wki sense does not violate the GFDL. In that sense no harm is done. No money damages can be proved.

Just because the state can make a prosecuting official, who might be politically beholden, make a bizarre charge does not mean the courts will support this.