> WIKIA/WIKIPEDIA - The problem is here, now...

the fieryangel

Here's the discussion on the talkpage.

Off of Giano II's talkpage, we learn an important detail :

QUOTE

Than you Utgard, can I just make it quite clear once and for all it was not an email it was a post. There is avery subtle difference which I am not going into right now. Giano (talk) 15:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

As an aside- is the list under the GNU Free Documentation License as it seems to be, because there is a pic of the moose at the bottom of it? So all posts to it are licenced under the GNU- not a very subtle difference at all- unless you call the giant head of a moose subtle.:)Merkinsmum (talk) 16:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Let's just leave all the legal issues for a while and see what happens. Giano (talk) 16:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Given this discussion, it seems quite clear that the posted email was indeed GFDL and everybody knows it.

From Gianno :

QUOTE

A post to a mailing list published to the internet under by GNU Free Documentation License is firmly without copyright. Secondly, people would be better advised never to commit anything to paper or print which they would be ashamed for others to see. Especially unfounded libels. Giano (talk) 18:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

So, a private group making policy decisions on Wikipedia was hosted by Wikia. The post in question was not set via a mailing list, but posted on a forum or, if you will, a "wiki". By definition under the
The WIKIA TOS .

QUOTE

Any content you upload or post to any Wikia, Inc. wiki must be compatible with the relevant license (for example, the GFDL for any Wikia, or the relevant CC license for other wikis),

So, Wikia=Wikipedia once and for all? Have we finally proven that here?

Somey

QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 26th November 2007, 4:15pm)

So, Wikia=Wikipedia once and for all? Have we finally proven that here?

At the risk of sounding like the Devil's Advocate, I'd have to say no - or at least, not any more so than cheapviagra.com would be a part of Wikipedia (or vice-versa) if the mailing list was hosted there.

What might be an interesting test, though, would be to see if Wikia would be willing to host a mailing list, or even a wiki, on Wikipedia administrative malfeasance, given that such a list would have to follow Wikia's ToS to the letter. If they refused, then presumably it would show a prejudicial bias towards a specific group of Wikipedians over another specific group... but even so, a deliberate attempt to steer Wikipedia policy by favoring one side of an issue over another doesn't necessarily indicate an attempt to control WP, only to influence it.

the fieryangel

QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:34pm)

QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 26th November 2007, 4:15pm)

So, Wikia=Wikipedia once and for all? Have we finally proven that here?

At the risk of sounding like the Devil's Advocate, I'd have to say no - or at least, not any more so than cheapviagra.com would be a part of Wikipedia (or vice-versa) if the mailing list was hosted there.

What might be an interesting test, though, would be to see if Wikia would be willing to host a mailing list, or even a wiki, on Wikipedia administrative malfeasance, given that such a list would have to follow Wikia's ToS to the letter. If they refused, then presumably it would show a prejudicial bias towards a specific group of Wikipedians over another specific group... but even so, a deliberate attempt to steer Wikipedia policy by favoring one side of an issue over another doesn't necessarily indicate an attempt to control WP, only to influence it.

Somey, you're not the "Devil's Advocate"...You're the Devil, himself.

Okay, who wants to start the list?

Moulton

Many mailing lists are also archived on a web server, where they may be viewed. Some systems also allow responses to be posted directly through the same web server. For at least a decade now, there have been systems and sites that combine traditional e-mail distribution with web-based forums.

the fieryangel

QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:45pm)

Many mailing lists are also archived on a web server, where they may be viewed. Some systems also allow responses to be posted directly through the same web server. For at least a decade now, there have been systems and sites that combine traditional e-mail distribution with web-based forums.

Yes, but Gianno said that it wasn't on a mailing list, but was a "post" on a forum. So, it was definitely on a Wikia site and therefore GFDL.

So, when do we start the WR site on Wikia?

wikiwhistle

I think he meant it was a 'post' to a mailing list.

Somewhere I think they are saying the moose just means it's powered by GNU software, rather than that all the posts are under the GFDL.

thekohser

QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 26th November 2007, 5:48pm)

QUOTE(Moulton @ Mon 26th November 2007, 11:45pm)

Many mailing lists are also archived on a web server, where they may be viewed. Some systems also allow responses to be posted directly through the same web server. For at least a decade now, there have been systems and sites that combine traditional e-mail distribution with web-based forums.

Yes, but Gianno said that it wasn't on a mailing list, but was a "post" on a forum. So, it was definitely on a Wikia site and therefore GFDL.

So, when do we start the WR site on Wikia?

I think trying to infiltrate Wikia with "our" list or "our" wikia is going to be a dead-end. Jimbo himself would deny the request with the politically-tolerable excuse that "such a list does not actively promote the betterment of society in general, or of wikis in particular". He'd also say that the "other" existing list was designed with the intention to help society. Yadda yadda. Waste of time, though a cheeky idea.

Just write your letters to the Editors of your local newspapers, everyone!

Greg

anthony

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:49am)

I think trying to infiltrate Wikia with "our" list or "our" wikia is going to be a dead-end. Jimbo himself would deny the request with the politically-tolerable excuse that "such a list does not actively promote the betterment of society in general, or of wikis in particular".

Of course, if he was trickier he'd approve the request and use it to collect our email addresses, IP addresses, etc.

Either way, not a good idea.

GlassBeadGame

QUOTE(anthony @ Mon 26th November 2007, 9:53pm)

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 27th November 2007, 2:49am)

I think trying to infiltrate Wikia with "our" list or "our" wikia is going to be a dead-end. Jimbo himself would deny the request with the politically-tolerable excuse that "such a list does not actively promote the betterment of society in general, or of wikis in particular".

Of course, if he was trickier he'd approve the request and use it to collect our email addresses, IP addresses, etc.

Either way, not a good idea.

Not only that by would we? We have our own site, the technical where-with-all to implement a mediwiki type wiki or listserv application if we want, far greater traffic than a typical Wikia site and can certainly live without the adds. I see no upside, only downsides.

Somey

Well, I didn't say it would actually be anything more than a "breaching experiment," and to be honest I've never really breached anything. I mean, unless you include the wall of my dining room, but that's a completely different situation.

But yes, a complete waste of time... and to be frank, I personally have little or nothing against Wikia at all. I was a little concerned when they took over Uncyclopedia, as were most of the other Uncyclopedians, but so far that hasn't been so bad. (IMO.)