> Jimbo to testify before US Senate on Tuesday

the fieryangel

While I was trying to find leads to explain the Great MENUDO scandal of 2007 where the GodKing wields his mighty banhammer, I came across this tidbit :

QUOTE

I am travelling on Monday, and testifying before a US Senate subcommittee on e-government on Tuesday , and then travelling again on Wednesday. I will try to stay on top of this as well. -[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales|talk]]) 17:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

E-government? Senate Subcommittee? Jimbo Wales?

Does anybody else get a "one of these things is not like the others" feeling looking at this?

~~Anybody know what this is about?~~ I found it here:

QUOTE

U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Title: E-Government 2.0: Improving Innovation, Collaboration, and Access
Date: 12/11/07
Time (EST): 10:00 AM
Place: Dirksen Senate Office Building, Rm. 342
image

Witnesses

Panel 1
Karen S. Evans , Administrator, Office of Electronic Government and Information Technology , Office of Management and Budget
John Lewis Needham , Manager, Public Sector Content Partnerships , Google, Inc.
Ari Schwartz , Deputy Director , Center for Democracy and Technology
Jimmy Wales , Founder , Wikipedia

You can watch live here tomorrow at 10 a.m. Eastern....Or listen to audio here by clicking on the link for room 342.

the fieryangel

Hm, here's the membership of the committee and here's its jurisdiction :

Any way we can turn this into a WP protest? Write your Senator?

thekohser

QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 10th December 2007, 11:33am)

Hm, here's the membership of the committee and here's its jurisdiction :

Any way we can turn this into a WP protest? Write your Senator?

I have written a detailed note to Senator Carper in Delaware, since I was a DE resident for 10 years, and my in-laws and many friends still live there. The points I made centered on how Wikipedia has threatened the justice of Homeland Security (citing the Taner Akcam case as example), and that Jimmy Wales has given statements in public and to the press which have turned out to be proven false or at least highly misleading (wow, I feel like Durova), so his testimony on Tuesday should be taken with a grain of salt.

I don't know if this will help, but I do encourage anyone with ties to the states where Senate members of that committee are represented, to WRITE THOSE LEGISLATORS today!

Greg

Disillusioned Lackey

QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 10th December 2007, 11:22am)

I don't know if this will help, but I do encourage anyone with ties to the states where Senate members of that committee are represented, to WRITE THOSE LEGISLATORS today!
Greg

You dont need ties to those states. Write the entire population of the subcommittee. Writing your own Senators puts the onus on "them" to use political favor or capital to move things.

Go direct to the people on the subcommittee.

GlassBeadGame

QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Mon 10th December 2007, 5:10pm)

QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 10th December 2007, 11:22am)

I don't know if this will help, but I do encourage anyone with ties to the states where Senate members of that committee are represented, to WRITE THOSE LEGISLATORS today!
Greg

You dont need ties to those states. Write the entire population of the subcommittee. Writing your own Senators puts the onus on "them" to use political favor or capital to move things.

Go direct to the people on the subcommittee.

I sent this polite and moderate note under my real name to Levin's office:

QUOTE

RE: U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
Title: E-Government 2.0: Improving Innovation, Collaboration, and Access

Dear Senator Levin:

I am requesting that the Senator and his staff look into many of the serious, if not obvious issues relating to reliance on Wikipedia for developing and distributing reliable information. Of immediate concern to the issue of Homeland Security is the treatment of Taner Akcam, a Turkish scholar who was detained by Canadian immigration officials on Feb 24, 2007 after they looked up and obtained erroneous information in his Wikipedia biography indicating his involvement in terrorism. I would also request that the Senator give full re-consideration to granting CDA, Sec 230 "immunity" for web 2.0 publishers of information made by anonymous and pseudonymous contributors. This immunity encourages the defamation of innocent subjects of Wikipedia biographies.

There are many other issues relating to the lack of social responsibility inherent in Wikipedia. More information and discussions of these matters can be found at http://wikipediareview.com. I would encourage the Senator and his staff to consider these concerns in the development of DHS and Internet related policy.

Sincerely

It was sent by email via his cgi form. If anyone want to use this as a template they are welcome:

Moulton

Jimbo's 6-page testimony can be found here...

http://hsgac.senate.gov/_files/121107Wales.pdf

By way of contrast, here is an article, also published today, by Beth Simone Noveck...

Wiki-Government

thekohser

QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 11th December 2007, 11:24am)

Jimbo's 6-page testimony can be found here...

http://hsgac.senate.gov/_files/121107Wales.pdf

By way of contrast, here is an article, also published today, by Beth Simone Noveck...

Wiki-Government

There's a fib in the first sentence ("founder" as opposed to the more accurate "co-founder"), and the second sentence is not grammatically correct. This should be fun reading.

Greg

dogbiscuit

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 11th December 2007, 4:37pm)

QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 11th December 2007, 11:24am)

Jimbo's 6-page testimony can be found here...

http://hsgac.senate.gov/_files/121107Wales.pdf

By way of contrast, here is an article, also published today, by Beth Simone Noveck...

Wiki-Government

There's a fib in the first sentence ("founder" as opposed to the more accurate "co-founder"), and the second sentence is not grammatically correct. This should be fun reading.

Greg

Another fib is "This tends to cause the quality of the work to improve over time, since any bad changes do not live very long."... except when the Cabal get hold of an article, then it is set in stone, which no doubt Jimbo thinks is a Good Thing*.

*Thank goodness that in 1914, due to those pesky Americans, history came to a.

Saltimbanco

Is it true that grape flavored kool-aid was served during the hearings?

The Joy

QUOTE(Saltimbanco @ Tue 11th December 2007, 9:48pm)

Is it true that grape flavored kool-aid was served during the hearings?

They tried but the taste of the poison was still too strong. When they drink it, they knew it was over.

GlassBeadGame

I wonder if the committee even asked any questions? I suppose reading the statement and moving on indicates they are not taking WP serious. Sort of like having a priest "testify" about the nice soup kitchen he runs. But one would hope for something a little better from the august committee.

WhispersOfWisdom

He makes it sound cool but he will not (ultimately) enjoy the outcome and reasons for this little excercise. The national security issues and privacy issues are going to become bigger than Jimmy and Durova. More later...way later. You can find what I said about this topic way back when I first joined this site.

Oh, and he forgot to tell them about the average age of the people at WP that would help our national security. (around 16?) Most do not vote and most have not yet finished college.

I think the German government is more likely to be a help redefining the wiki model.

Jimmy is still dreaming.

thekohser

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 11th December 2007, 10:17pm)

I wonder if the committee even asked any questions? I suppose reading the statement and moving on indicates they are not taking WP serious. Sort of like having a priest "testify" about the nice soup kitchen he runs. But one would hope for something a little better from the august committee.

I tried to link to the video and to the audio-only stream, during the testimony. Neither link worked for me. Did anyone else actually witness the testimony?

I guess I'll go try to find it archived somewhere.

EDIT: Found it! Jimbo appears about 34.5 minutes into the hearing. And the session was chaired by the Dad from ALF !

Note how Wales strokes his beard very shortly after calling himself the "founder" of Wikipedia. Nervous tic.

Greg

WhispersOfWisdom

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 11th December 2007, 9:52pm)

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 11th December 2007, 10:17pm)

I wonder if the committee even asked any questions? I suppose reading the statement and moving on indicates they are not taking WP serious. Sort of like having a priest "testify" about the nice soup kitchen he runs. But one would hope for something a little better from the august committee.

I tried to link to the video and to the audio-only stream, during the testimony. Neither link worked for me. Did anyone else actually witness the testimony?

I guess I'll go try to find it archived somewhere.

Greg

Believe me, the U.S. Government is taking WP very seriously, albeit not Jimmy Wales, or people like Beasewax or Durova.. The potential problem is the chaos, lack of real law, and privacy issues that are at stake. Allowing anyone to enter data and edit is also a very real concern, especially when minors and idiots are running the joint. Just look at the Arbcom. and Biography issues.

They (Jimmy and JzG) are trying to sweep the congressional issues under the rug. It is not working.

thekohser

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 11th December 2007, 11:01pm)

I guess I'll go try to find it archived somewhere.

EDIT: Found it! Jimbo appears about 34.5 minutes into the hearing. And the session was chaired by the Dad from ALF !

Note how Wales strokes his beard very shortly after calling himself the "founder" of Wikipedia. Nervous tic.

Greg

You may watch the video. I am not impressed with Joe Lieberman's inability to express any level of skepticism regarding the Wikipedia model. In fact, around 1:15:00, Jimbo uses that tired old analogy of the "steak restaurant where knives will be used, so we'll put every patron in a cage, so they don't stab each other". The panel bought it hook, line, and sinker.

I have an equally amusing retort for that analogy:

At the Wikipedia Grille, the mashed potatoes are made with 2% sawdust, and your tomato soup is made with 2% lamb's blood. It's still delicious, and as long as the management keeps denying the existence or the relative harm of these flaws, patrons will keep flocking to this restaurant, none the wiser. Even when a diner (such as Taner Akcam) actually has a seizure from the sealants that were used on the lumber that went into the sawdust, there is no public outcry because too damn many people LOVE the Wikipedia Grille, and (after all) THEY haven't had a seizure, so everything must be just fine.

Greg

thekohser

Check out the point at 1:42:01, where he talks about Nupedia -- and Larry Sanger becomes "a guy I hired to help me". Jimbo can't even say the name of he-who-shall-not-be-named! Pathetic.

Senator Carper had led into this conversation by asking how Wales got the "business idea" of the wiki. (Carper's from Delaware -- I momentarily wondered if he was talking about Delaware corporation Wikia, Inc. there, but he wasn't) My e-mail notice to Carper on Monday obviously went unread or unconsidered, since he asked nothing about how Wikipedia has led to faulty infringement of innocent people's lives.

I'm just not as powerful as that stud Jimmy Wales.

Greg

Joseph100

QUOTE(WhispersOfWisdom @ Tue 11th December 2007, 10:04pm)

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 11th December 2007, 9:52pm)

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 11th December 2007, 10:17pm)

I wonder if the committee even asked any questions? I suppose reading the statement and moving on indicates they are not taking WP serious. Sort of like having a priest "testify" about the nice soup kitchen he runs. But one would hope for something a little better from the august committee.

I tried to link to the video and to the audio-only stream, during the testimony. Neither link worked for me. Did anyone else actually witness the testimony?

I guess I'll go try to find it archived somewhere.

Greg

Believe me, the U.S. Government is taking WP very seriously, albeit not Jimmy Wales, or people like Beasewax or Durova.. The potential problem is the chaos, lack of real law, and privacy issues that are at stake. Allowing anyone to enter data and edit is also a very real concern, especially when minors and idiots are running the joint. Just look at the Arbcom. and Biography issues.

They (Jimmy and JzG) are trying to sweep the congressional issues under the rug. It is not working.

I happen to know "personally" a number of congressmen (I worked their campaigns and I am friends with them ) and believe me that I have told them the flaws of section 230 for the CDA 1996 and the fact they (Wikipeida) is immune to defamation laws under that section. They know it have great concern about it and will be looking to change that as it is appropriate.

The clown cars like Jzg/ Gremail/ Ryulongs/Dovan's don't have any clue what forces are gather forth the wipe wikipeida out. Wikpeida has done to much damage and made to many enemies.

the fieryangel

Listening to this recording, Jimbo kept going back to the various experiments with Wikis by the US government (Intelligopedia was brought several times) and how government could benefit.

I wonder if this was all about Wikia acting as a US government consultant to set up these kinds of Wikis? The focus wasn't really on Wikipedia, it was on the Wiki model.

Where's the benefit for Jimbo here?

Saltimbanco

You think Jimbo doesn't benefit from being able to say he testified before Congress? Wasn't the last deliberative body he gave testimony to the Adult Film Industry annual awards committee?

Disillusioned Lackey

eGov 2.0: Wikipedia, Google, and CDT Experts on Capitol Hill

Someone tell me what happens. I can't bear to watch. My stomach is a bit weak today.

All I can think of is wishing someone was in the back row hollering: "Don't you know that "certain administrators" have all Congressional IPs on her watchlist so she can call the press and ruin all of you for editing those pages??"

the fieryangel

QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Sat 29th December 2007, 10:02am)

eGov 2.0: Wikipedia, Google, and CDT Experts on Capitol Hill

Someone tell me what happens. I can't bear to watch. My stomach is a bit weak today.

All I can think of is wishing someone was in the back row hollering: "Don't you know that "certain administrators" have all Congressional IPs on her watchlist so she can call the press and ruin all of you for editing those pages??"

That's pretty much covered in this thread. My take was that Jimmy's cookin' up a way for people to tell the IRS that their neighbors are evading taxes using Wiki-technology.....but then, I ain't exactly unbiased here...I'm going to steal your link and put it in the mainforum thread, if you don't mind...

the fieryangel

DL found a link for this on Youtube :

I highly recommend watching this: the implications of the US government using Wikis for "citizen interaction" with things like the IRS and LE are....disturbing, to say the least....

One

It's a damn shame that they don't debate section 230 immunity and the voluminous scholarly opinion against its current interpretation.

Those CDA cases always take my breath away. (Wait, you mean I can claim that someone stalks a particular woman, even though I know it's false, and I can't be held liable because it's a third-party's words merely "reposted" on an interactive computer service?) I wish the damn thing was never passed because serious money, like Google, now considers it their right to ignore libel. They would lobby to protect it, and they'd probably win. Still, it would be fun to have a libel-on-Wikipedia day at Congress.

Oh well.

Miltopia

It'll be fascinating to see what Jimbo's like in a forum where he does not have all control/final say. He's so arrogant and full of himself that I wouldn't be surprised to be halfway through this and hear him responding to some concern with "I don't really have a problem with it" and then becoming flustered when his "that's that" attitude fails him.

I can't wait to hear him call one of the Congressmen a troll :-D

Also, who thinks was a cry for attention? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=177205876

thekohser

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 29th December 2007, 7:12am)

Also, who thinks was a cry for attention? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=177205876

Well, shortly after Jimbo got over himself and unprotected Lieberman's article, the Senator was "flaming homo" for a good five-and-a-half hours.

I'd say the more incriminating vandalism would be to expose Lieberman for who he really is -- the voice of the dad on ALF ! ! !

FORUM Image

The vocal similarities are uncanny!

Greg

Disillusioned Lackey

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 29th December 2007, 6:12am)

It'll be fascinating to see what Jimbo's like in a forum where he does not have all control/final say. He's so arrogant and full of himself that I wouldn't be surprised to .....

Because this is *unusual* in Washington, D.C.

Man, you don't know D.C. This is the norm.

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 29th December 2007, 6:12am)

...t I wouldn't be surprised to be halfway through this and hear him responding to some concern with "I don't really have a problem with it" and then becoming flustered when his "that's that" attitude fails him.

And you don't know Jimbo as well, actually. Jimbo is quite reasonable, when faced with something or someone greater than him. In fact, it is *only* these situations in which he behaves in a congenial manner. Mostly because he has something he wants from his betters. I'm sure the donors of Wikimedia and funders of Wikia think he's swell.

This is standard practice for people of his personality type. They mind their manners when they HAVE to not as a matter of course.

Jimbo Wales, like any mammel without higher intentions, needs a nice juicy carrot, or a strong stick to do the right thing

.

QUOTE

m (Protected Joe Lieberman: Jimbo testifying before Lieberman in Senate today - not a good day for vandalism [edit=sysop:move=sysop] (expires 13:48, 12 December 2007 (link)

See, any other normal person, even if they behaved with such naked self interest as to protect someone's bio before meeting them in a large room (with them at the gavel) might 1) have protected it a month ago 2) chosen to NOT mention it online 3) have protected the bio to start with, given that the person is one of the nation's more prominent elected representatives. 4) Told ~~Durova~~ his dutiful lackeys to "get a new hobby" and stop harassing the elected officials who give him such great deal on law-free practices.

(and no, I don't that it is ok for politicos to mess with Wikipedia - I mean that Wikipedia needs to stop messing with politicos too)

Miltopia

Your take on Jimbo's personality actually makes a lot more sense. What a snake.

I hope one day his good manners fail him and he goes postal on some critic :-D

Disillusioned Lackey

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 29th December 2007, 4:09pm)

Your take on Jimbo's personality actually makes a lot more sense. What a snake.

Worse than a snake he's just plain tacky. Cheap.

A BIG CHEESE? OR JUST CHEESY?

Of course, Jimbo Wales should care about everyone's bio in Wikipedia (but he doesn't).

and that edit comment made it obvious.

Of course, Jimbo Wales should care about famous people's bios on Wikipedia (but he doesn't).

and that edit comment revealed this.

In fact, Wikipedia is a revenge project against famous people, where the non-famous can taunt the famous and get top-billing online.

... history shows this.
... and Jimbo Wales "doesn't have a problem with it".

Wikipedia is also used to taunt and torture non-famous or marginally famous people

ask Dan Brandt
or ask Slimvirgin, who rues the day she wrote a bio about him that she couldn't remove, even herself.
Because Dan Brandt made her "famous" as payback for making him "famous" with his bio struggle.

Of course, Jimbo Wales should care about politicians bios in general, especially (but he doesn't).

and that post made it obvious. See above post about non-powerful taunting the powerful
and remember that congressional offices can't edit bios, per Wikipedia rules, and Durova practices - see the Tim H. story.

Of course, making some special efforts to please people in power is normal

(but he is so utterly, utterly, tacky about it). CHEESY, even.
(sort of like you'd expect a former porn dealer to be)

Disillusioned Lackey

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 29th December 2007, 4:09pm)

I hope one day his good manners fail him and he goes postal on some critic :-D

Oh it will happen. One fine day when everything is going wrong, the real Jimbo will slip out.

Let's hope it is captured on someone's mobile phone camera and winds up on Youtube.

A famous obnoxious man. Being taunted by an unfamous person.

Imagine the irony.