Subj: Messianic Judaism
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:57:57 -0500
From: jayjg <jayjg99-…@public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>
To:
aviwiki-…@public.gmane.org,
"Pinchas Cohen" <PinchasC-…@public.gmane.org>,
"English Wikipedia" <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Beit Or" <beitor06-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Humus Sapiens" <humus.sapiens-…@public.gmane.org>
Newsgroups: gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.english

Someone has conveniently deleted all the criticism from the lead, in violation of [[WP:LEAD]].

'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Messianic_Judaism&diff=175803950&oldid=175525305'

I'm planning to go in tonight and do some re-adding and tagging. Will you be able to watch my back?

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BYOP...

The irony is that he stabbed himself in the back.

Who has this email? I want the extended headers. There might be an originating IP address in it.

Who has this email? I want the extended headers. There might be an originating IP address in it.

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From: jayjg <jayjg99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Newsgroups: gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.english
Subject: Messianic Judaism
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:57:57 -0500
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Someone has conveniently deleted all the criticism from the lead, in violation of [[WP:LEAD]].

'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Messianic_Judaism&diff=175803950&oldid=175525305'

I'm planning to go in tonight and do some re-adding and tagging. Will you be able to watch my back?

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
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What on earth? Why are his contributions out of order?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...er&target=Jayjg

Ummm... because those are different days??? You lost me.

Whether it was inappropriately sent or not, the aticle _was_ evicerated
after months of discussion.

--Avi

Here is the copy with address list from Gmane —

Subj: Messianic Judaism
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:57:57 -0500
From: jayjg <jayjg99-…@public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>
To:
aviwiki-…@public.gmane.org,
"Pinchas Cohen" <PinchasC-…@public.gmane.org>,
"English Wikipedia" <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Beit Or" <beitor06-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Humus Sapiens" <humus.sapiens-…@public.gmane.org>

What on earth? Why are his contributions out of order?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...er&target=Jayjg

Something else to think about... His stated intent to edit the article "tonight" would break from his odd editing pattern of the past few days.

Were these edits going to be made with another account?

After looking at the diff involved, I don't necessarily disagree with Jayjg about the problematic nature of the edit, doing fairly massive removals of critical stuff from the article with a very misleading edit summary. It's just his method of combatting it, by canvassing "privately" (except when he slips up and posts it to a public list) among his friends so they "have his back" when he reverts, that's problematic.

His recent edits have been between 03:10 and 03:20 UTC which is I think 22:10-22:20 Toronto time.

Something else to think about... His stated intent to edit the article "tonight" would break from his odd editing pattern of the past few days.

Were these edits going to be made with another account?

Why would there be things to be discussed about articles that cannot be said in public?

The same thing that Proabivouac did with his previous account.

There aren't... as I said, he went about it in all the wrong way, and possibly symptomatic of a greater problem... who knows how much of this back-channel stuff is going on. He should have pointed out the problem with the article above-board on its talk page or other on-wiki channels. However, his concern itself seems valid.

You might begin with a new account, too, if you had that anti-semitic psychopath attacking your RWI all over Wikipedia. It's just one of very many examples of how anyone can turn Wikipedia into an attack machine against anyone at any time, with the acquiescence (or not, depending on your connections) of the management. That flame-war environment, not anything happening over here, is the main reason the community generally has been moving towards pseudonymity. When I started, believe it or not, the username policy suggested one's real name as the best one to use. That turned out to be very very bad advice.

It's just his method of combatting it, by canvassing "privately" (except when he slips up and posts it to a public list) among his friends so they "have his back" when he reverts, that's problematic.

"What my allies say I should have done was find other editors to help revert him back and thus avoid 3RR. I think that this is esentially [[WP:MEAT|meatpuppetry]] and effectively a way that is also opposed to Wikipedia policies and guidelines."
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=139539241

As for Jayjg, I can't speak to all of Wikipedia's Judaism-related articles, but on those which also involve Islam, the POV pushing from the Muslim corner is relentless. I won't say that I think Jayjg neutral, but if I had to choose between his versions and the typical alternatives, his are at least coherent and informative.

…you did it as well helping MONGO, Tom Harrison, and the rest of the Team America trolls collect absurd collections of blown up evidence against that Six/Seven guy after he routinely stopped them via policy.

Jimbo Wales certainly does care about what the Israeli lobby could say about his project. Is he concerned about what Palestinian or Muslim groups might say- no.

I hate to break this to you, but when Muslim groups have a major influence on Wikipedia, you can kiss the project goodbye. Not all worldviews are equally rational, or, if you prefer, not all are equally compatible with the values of Western academic scholarship.

There aren't... as I said, he went about it in all the wrong way, and possibly symptomatic of a greater problem... who knows how much of this back-channel stuff is going on. He should have pointed out the problem with the article above-board on its talk page or other on-wiki channels. However, his concern itself seems valid.

There were five edits there -- Jayjg attributed them all to ChristTrekker, but actually s/he only edited the picture.

I have nothing at all against NuclearUmpf/SevenOfDiamonds except that he was taking the piss by denying who he was, and calling other people liars for seeing the obvious. He seemed to me a productive and capable editor whose negative history with MONGO drove him to seek a rematch on the noticeboards.


I hate to break this to you, but when Muslim groups have a major influence on Wikipedia, you can kiss the project goodbye. Not all worldviews are equally rational, or, if you prefer, not all are equally compatible with the values of Western academic scholarship.

For a moment there, WR looked just like WP: some ignoramus making dark statements about something he doesn't know a damn thing about.

What do members of the Wikipeanut Gallery learn about Wikipediot Society when they see an Elite Henchman like Jayjg get away with high crimes and misdemeanors on a routine basis any one instance of which would get the ordinary Wikipeon banned for life?

Jonny

I hate to break this to you, but when Muslim groups have a major influence on Wikipedia, you can kiss the project goodbye. Not all worldviews are equally rational, or, if you prefer, not all are equally compatible with the values of Western academic scholarship.

Except Wikipedia's supposed to not be evil, isn't it?

Not all worldviews are equally rational, or, if you prefer, not all are equally compatible with the values of Western academic scholarship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not

text search for evil doesn't come up.

Wikipedia is explicitly not democratic, nor bureaucratic, nor anarchist. It's hardly a coincidence that "authoritarian" didn't make the list.

Communism also didn't make the list.

Excuse me?

One can purchase, for example, the Catholic Encyclopedia. There are probably comparable encyclopedias for Judaism and other religious perspectives.

What do members of the Wikipeanut Gallery learn about Wikipediot Society when they see an Elite Henchman like Jayjg get away with high crimes and misdemeanors on a routine basis any one instance of which would get the ordinary Wikipeon banned for life?

Jonny

Cowabonga, Buffalo Bob! Jerking ropes come in all lengths. Some are a very short leash. Some are so long one can wander the earth with them. It just goes to show that some jerks are jerkier than others.