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Zenwhat
What's up? New users here.

I've been blocked from Wikipedia for a week over the most absurd nonsense. I've had a lot of problems with Wikipedia -- IRC sysops abusing their powers, respected editors (and admins) in the IRC threatening to frame me for policy violations, admins on ANI being useless, article edits being wiped out by trolls, and with few people -- trolls or non-trolls alike -- willing and able to actually engage in meaningful discussion.

All of this stuff I could establish with diffs, but it would take quite a long time and I think I would be preaching to the choir.

In the meantime, though, I'd like to share the diffs which led to me being blocked for a week. First, I was blocked indefinitely by Krimpet for "disruptive editing." (Diff)

The block was clear bullshit, hence the community argued over it and I was unblocked.

At this time, I was a bit angry and upset, so I decided to reveal some privy information that I had said I would not reveal. Roughly a week before the FY 2007 financial report was released, I noticed a number of facts which suggested Wikimedia was in financial trouble -- not that they were going broke, just that they were mismanaging funds. Kim Bruning accidentally blurted out on Skype, "Well, yes, the numbers are bad..." then said, "Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to tell you that!"

He's a friend, so I said I wouldn't tell anyone. After being indef-blocked, though, I flipped out and decided, "Screw this. I'm going to tell the community." So then I posted this thread on WP:VP. (diff)

A short while later, I realized that I was angry and irrational when I did that, so I tried to remove the thread with the summary, "I was angry when I made this. Deleting it." A user reverted my removal, then blocked me for a week -- for what reason? For making the thread that they restored and for removing information. laugh.gif In the notification that I was blocked, the admin actually called me a fool. He later crossed that out and apologized... I said, "I forgive you, can you forgive me?" Apparently not. The block stayed up.

So anyway, this block, too, was clearly bullshit. The community argued over it and, again, I was unblocked.

Now the third block: I tried to help out a new user with a quiz of theirs (diff). Somehow, unfathomably, this was regarded as "trolling" by Nakon. A quote from that post:

QUOTE
You could re-post this question anywhere you like and if anyone tells you, "This question doesn't belong here," or "This is against the rules," don't worry about it. Those folks can be especially annoying if they tell you what you ''can't'' do, but don't tell you what you ''can'' do or help you actually achieve what you're trying to achieve.

The person that reverted that edit did not help the person, the person that blocked me did not help the person, even when I went into IRC to ask for help, they didn't help the person, and when I told this to Kim Bruning, he said:

*The user's quiz was dumb
*The community is going into "auto-revert" mode of my edits
*This "auto-revert" mode is my fault and not them assuming bad faith

In the WP:ANI discussion about this, one user actually said that I violated "the sanctity of Jimbo's talkpage."

laugh.gif

Now, it gets worse... I decided to go over to meta, thinking I could find a quiet little corner to myself, to publish essays on Wikipedia philosophy and policy. But no!

See:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Zenwhat

I uploaded several essays and a user then nominated every page I created for deletion.

It gets even more silly, though... I fixed a broken link on meta. Diff Within under a minute, that was reverted by Aphaia who said, "Do not modify the source wrongly. It is intended to work well when put on the wmf website."

I explained how my edit would in fact work on the WMF website. My comments were later wiped, with the summary "removing trolling."

Another user, SpaceBirdy, then came along and threatened to block me for "disrupting their work with redundant edits and redundant discussions." He didn't of course directly say "block," because that's too honest. Instead, it was just the subtle threat, "You were warned, if You continue there will be no further warning, thanks."

I tried to explain to him, too, how my edit made sense and he ignored me. Again, talkpage comments wiped.

Later, Birdy has the nerve to come back to my page with this comment:

QUOTE
Hi Zenwhat, I saw Your comment in the rfd and would like to suggest kindly to stick around a bit and geting to know Meta better before posting rfds, imho this would reduce the tensions. You will see that Meta is a nice place to be and the people here are good. It troubles me to see such harsh comments as on this page.
Please also let me say few thoughts about the word troll, which is often said too easily imho, a troll, Icelandic tröll, is a creature living in mountains and caves, causing earthquakes, vulcanic eruptions etc. (which is dangerous) but not because it is an evil creature or does something malicious intentionally, but because it is somehow clumsy. So that might just be something happening to someone new to a project, he means to do good but it turnes out not to be so good after all. Best regards,


So, yes, I am a troll... I am not necessarily evil or intentionally malicious. I am just clumsy.

His capitalization of You and Your also gives me the creeps.

Anyway, I'm a bit too lazy to dig through all these diffs and so on, and the MediaWiki software is horribly designed, such that it is very, very difficult and tedious to pour through diffs. If anybody here disputes my claims, yeah, that will motivate me to go back through and get the diffs... But for now, it'd be a lot of work and those who'd need it probably wouldn't listen anyway.
Peter Damian
QUOTE(Zenwhat @ Sun 17th February 2008, 12:13pm) *

What's up? New users here.
I've been blocked from Wikipedia for a week over the most absurd nonsense.


I noticed your block when 'visiting' yesterday. It seemed very strange. Always hard to tease out the details, but it seems a significant number of people were defending you on the lines you mention yourself (generally harmless amusement). A couple of people went further and said you had been blocked not for any of the usual 'behavioural' excuses, but simply for making statements against the now prevailing groupthink.
Zenwhat
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 17th February 2008, 12:19pm) *

QUOTE(Zenwhat @ Sun 17th February 2008, 12:13pm) *

What's up? New users here.
I've been blocked from Wikipedia for a week over the most absurd nonsense.


I noticed your block when 'visiting' yesterday. It seemed very strange. Always hard to tease out the details, but it seems a significant number of people were defending you on the lines you mention yourself (generally harmless amusement). A couple of people went further and said you had been blocked not for any of the usual 'behavioural' excuses, but simply for making statements against the now prevailing groupthink.

That's true, I think.

In Wikipedia IRC, I was arguing in defense of my edits to WP:FAIL. My arguing caused so much cognitive dissonance in the mind of Gurch that he ended up exploding by first vandalizing WP:FAIL (mass-deleting my edits with rollback), then when I called him on it, he deleted all of his userpages.

This made everybody mad (as if I am to blame for his immature behavior??). Cometstyles and Phoenix-wiki threatened to have me blocked under bullshit policy violations.

Keep in mind: I don't think there's necessarily any conscious cabal of users (dun dun dun), just that there's a handful of immature idiots that have been stalking my contribs, just waiting to find an excuse to perma-ban me.

Even Kim Bruning has said that what's going on is the community going into "auto-revert mode" for reasons of "human psychology," and he's compared it to IdentityOppression on meatball wiki. Despite this, though, he actually suggests that I am blameworthy for this whole thing.
wikiwhistle
QUOTE(Zenwhat @ Sun 17th February 2008, 12:13pm) *

What's up? New users here.

I've been blocked from Wikipedia for a week over the most absurd nonsense.


OMFG! It certainly looks like nonsense. I can't believe how rude and randomly obstuctive they've been to you- unfortunately, others on here can probably believe it all too easily.

Anyway, welcome to the board smile.gif
Zenwhat
QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sun 17th February 2008, 1:04pm) *

QUOTE(Zenwhat @ Sun 17th February 2008, 12:13pm) *

What's up? New users here.

I've been blocked from Wikipedia for a week over the most absurd nonsense.


OMFG! It certainly looks like nonsense. I can't believe how rude and randomly obstuctive they've been to you- unfortunately, others on here can probably believe it all too easily.

Anyway, welcome to the board smile.gif

At the same time I admit that I'm sort of skeptical about some of the theories some of you guys have, I think...

I wrote an essay on meta:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legitimate_criticism
QUOTE
Legitimate criticism of Wikipedia should be distinguished from conspiracy theorism. More often than not, claims like "Wikipedia is inaccurate," or "There are administrators abusing their power," are inappropriately lumped in with various conspiracy theories.

Examples of alleged conspiracy theories on Wikipedia:

* The claim that Jimmy Wales runs Wikipedia secretly as a tax-shelter, through porting content to Wikia.
* The claim that there is a secret cabal which controls everything.
* Claims made by POV-pushing trolls that Wikipedia is biased against their views (i.e., they push FOO fringe, therefore Wikipedia has an anti-FOO bias, because they're dominated by BAR).
* The claim that the CIA has a sockpuppet operation on Wikipedia and that User:SlimVirgin works for them.
* The claim that Wikipedia is somehow colluding with Google (they're both run by the CIA, maybe?)
* The claim that the Foundation or Jimmy actively censor Wikipedia in various ways (i.e., silencing dissent, such as the Durova incident and the whole Overstock.com controversy)
* The recent claims made about User:Jossi and Prem Rawat

These conspiracy theories have zero to do with legitimate criticism and lumping them together with legitimate criticism is short-sighted. In fact, it is important that Wikipedia discern legitimate criticism from illegitimate criticism. If legitimate criticism is dismissed out-of-hand as conspiracy theory, then Wikipedia will never improve.

Groups like Wikipedia Review and the website, Wikipedia Watch, tend to mix legitimate criticism with conspiracy theorism. In general, just as most Wikipedia editors are hostile to criticism about their encyclopedia, members of Wikipedia Review are hostile to criticism of their conspiracy theories. The truth about Wikipedia lies somewhere in the middle and we should listen to both sides carefully, without prejudice, not biased in favor of either slandering Wikipedia or being apologetic for it.

Legitimate criticism was nominated for RfD. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

They said I made it just as an excuse to list those conspiracy theories, or something along those lines.

Also, because of that last paragraph, I'm probably going to invoke the wrath of the Wikipedia Review community here or w\e, but I don't really care. Those claims are conspiracy theories and they're annoying, because as my essay notes, legitimate criticisms are dismissed out-of-hand as conspiracy theory.
JohnA
I'm afraid, Zenwhat, that if you don't take a Wikibreak of a decent length of time (like 6 months) then they'll simply find another BS reason to indef block you and that will be it.

Then again, an indef block is a good way to clear the scales from someone's eyes about Wikipedia.

Right now, you're on a downward slope to an indef ban.
Jonny Cache
BTDT, in â™ 

Got all the T-shirts and wore 'em out already …

Please read up a little before you repeat all the usual nøøbitches …

By the way, do you read much Stanislaw Lem?

Jonny cool.gif
Zenwhat
QUOTE(JohnA @ Sun 17th February 2008, 1:14pm) *

I'm afraid, Zenwhat, that if you don't take a Wikibreak of a decent length of time (like 6 months) then they'll simply find another BS reason to indef block you and that will be it.

Then again, an indef block is a good way to clear the scales from someone's eyes about Wikipedia.

Right now, you're on a downward slope to an indef ban.

Yeah, I know. happy.gif

You are right, but this is such nonsense.
Peter Damian
QUOTE
Legitimate criticism of Wikipedia should be distinguished from conspiracy theorism. More often than not, claims like "Wikipedia is inaccurate," or "There are administrators abusing their power," are inappropriately lumped in with various conspiracy theories.

Examples of alleged conspiracy theories on Wikipedia:

* The claim that Jimmy Wales runs Wikipedia secretly as a tax-shelter, through porting content to Wikia.
* The claim that there is a secret cabal which controls everything.
* Claims made by POV-pushing trolls that Wikipedia is biased against their views (i.e., they push FOO fringe, therefore Wikipedia has an anti-FOO bias, because they're dominated by BAR).
* The claim that the CIA has a sockpuppet operation on Wikipedia and that User:SlimVirgin works for them.
* The claim that Wikipedia is somehow colluding with Google (they're both run by the CIA, maybe?)
* The claim that the Foundation or Jimmy actively censor Wikipedia in various ways (i.e., silencing dissent, such as the Durova incident and the whole Overstock.com controversy)
* The recent claims made about User:Jossi and Prem Rawat

These conspiracy theories have zero to do with legitimate criticism and lumping them together with legitimate criticism is short-sighted. In fact, it is important that Wikipedia discern legitimate criticism from illegitimate criticism. If legitimate criticism is dismissed out-of-hand as conspiracy theory, then Wikipedia will never improve.

Groups like Wikipedia Review and the website, Wikipedia Watch, tend to mix legitimate criticism with conspiracy theorism. In general, just as most Wikipedia editors are hostile to criticism about their encyclopedia, members of Wikipedia Review are hostile to criticism of their conspiracy theories. The truth about Wikipedia lies somewhere in the middle and we should listen to both sides carefully, without prejudice, not biased in favor of either slandering Wikipedia or being apologetic for it.


I thought that was quite useful. Explains some of the stranger ideas you occasionally see on here. Though most things on here seem pretty good. I can't see why anyone took exception to it. (Although 'claims made about User:Jossi and Prem Rawat' needs some context as unintelligible to the ordinary person. What claims???
Alison
QUOTE(Zenwhat @ Sun 17th February 2008, 4:13am) *


{snipola}

Another user, SpaceBirdy, then came along and threatened to block me for "disrupting their work with redundant edits and redundant discussions." He didn't of course directly say "block," because that's too honest. Instead, it was just the subtle threat, "You were warned, if You continue there will be no further warning, thanks."

I tried to explain to him, too, how my edit made sense and he ignored me. Again, talkpage comments wiped.



Hi, and welcome to WR.

Just FWIW, Spacebirdy is a "she". She's one of the new metawiki stewards. tongue.gif
Zenwhat
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 17th February 2008, 1:34pm) *

QUOTE
Legitimate criticism of Wikipedia should be distinguished from conspiracy theorism. More often than not, claims like "Wikipedia is inaccurate," or "There are administrators abusing their power," are inappropriately lumped in with various conspiracy theories.

Examples of alleged conspiracy theories on Wikipedia:

* The claim that Jimmy Wales runs Wikipedia secretly as a tax-shelter, through porting content to Wikia.
* The claim that there is a secret cabal which controls everything.
* Claims made by POV-pushing trolls that Wikipedia is biased against their views (i.e., they push FOO fringe, therefore Wikipedia has an anti-FOO bias, because they're dominated by BAR).
* The claim that the CIA has a sockpuppet operation on Wikipedia and that User:SlimVirgin works for them.
* The claim that Wikipedia is somehow colluding with Google (they're both run by the CIA, maybe?)
* The claim that the Foundation or Jimmy actively censor Wikipedia in various ways (i.e., silencing dissent, such as the Durova incident and the whole Overstock.com controversy)
* The recent claims made about User:Jossi and Prem Rawat

These conspiracy theories have zero to do with legitimate criticism and lumping them together with legitimate criticism is short-sighted. In fact, it is important that Wikipedia discern legitimate criticism from illegitimate criticism. If legitimate criticism is dismissed out-of-hand as conspiracy theory, then Wikipedia will never improve.

Groups like Wikipedia Review and the website, Wikipedia Watch, tend to mix legitimate criticism with conspiracy theorism. In general, just as most Wikipedia editors are hostile to criticism about their encyclopedia, members of Wikipedia Review are hostile to criticism of their conspiracy theories. The truth about Wikipedia lies somewhere in the middle and we should listen to both sides carefully, without prejudice, not biased in favor of either slandering Wikipedia or being apologetic for it.


I thought that was quite useful. Explains some of the stranger ideas you occasionally see on here. Though most things on here seem pretty good. I can't see why anyone took exception to it. (Although 'claims made about User:Jossi and Prem Rawat' needs some context as unintelligible to the ordinary person. What claims???

You haven't seen the recent article in the Register? TBH, I admit I'm a bit ambivalent at this point. At first, I read the article, then read Jossi's response, and dismissed it as conspiracy theory. Later I saw his edit count to the article on Prem Rawat, and now I'm not so sure. I'd like to see the specific diffs.

QUOTE(Alison @ Sun 17th February 2008, 2:06pm) *

QUOTE(Zenwhat @ Sun 17th February 2008, 4:13am) *


{snipola}

Another user, SpaceBirdy, then came along and threatened to block me for "disrupting their work with redundant edits and redundant discussions." He didn't of course directly say "block," because that's too honest. Instead, it was just the subtle threat, "You were warned, if You continue there will be no further warning, thanks."

I tried to explain to him, too, how my edit made sense and he ignored me. Again, talkpage comments wiped.



Hi, and welcome to WR.

Just FWIW, Spacebirdy is a "she". She's one of the new metawiki stewards. tongue.gif

Thank You. i have to say that Your words have been very doubleplus Helpful in Improving Wikipedia. We need more goodusers like You making goodedits to stop the badusers and the badedits, like the stuff You often find on the badsites. Do You know what i mean?
Alison
QUOTE

QUOTE(Alison @ Sun 17th February 2008, 2:06pm) *


Hi, and welcome to WR.

Just FWIW, Spacebirdy is a "she". She's one of the new metawiki stewards. tongue.gif

Thank You. i have to say that Your words have been very doubleplus Helpful in Improving Wikipedia. We need more goodusers like You making goodedits to stop the badusers and the badedits, like the stuff You often find on the badsites. Do You know what i mean?


Given that English is by far not her first language, I'd say she's doing okay somehow. How's your Icelandic and German? Do You know what i mean?
Zenwhat
QUOTE(Alison @ Sun 17th February 2008, 2:17pm) *

QUOTE

QUOTE(Alison @ Sun 17th February 2008, 2:06pm) *


Hi, and welcome to WR.

Just FWIW, Spacebirdy is a "she". She's one of the new metawiki stewards. tongue.gif

Thank You. i have to say that Your words have been very doubleplus Helpful in Improving Wikipedia. We need more goodusers like You making goodedits to stop the badusers and the badedits, like the stuff You often find on the badsites. Do You know what i mean?


Given that English is by far not her first language, I'd say she's doing okay somehow. How's your Icelandic and German? Do You know what i mean?

It's possible you're right and that I'm just being an asshole. I'll wait to see what she says.
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