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BobbyBombastic
"This is what you have wrought", answers Wikipedia Review.

QUOTE(SlimVirgin)
Erik Möller wrote in another thread:

"[T]he real substance here is the destructiveness on the margins of
our own community; that is what we must address. Wikimedia has
cultivated a tolerance for open hostility. If we see ourselves as a
community with a shared purpose, let's start acting like one. That
doesn't mean blindly following the leader - I have had my fair share
of arguments with Jimmy over the years - but it does mean rejecting
the destructive, malicious behavior that we have seen in recent days."

Erik is right. What is happening to the community is the real issue.
Even when I joined Wikipedia as a relative latecomer in 2004, the
sense of community and shared purpose was still palpable. People fell
out, of course, and made mistakes, but AGF wasn't an empty gesture or
a rule we blindly followed. We assumed good faith because we were all
here to give of our time, without payment or any benefit other than a
feeling of satisfaction, to produce something that might help to
educate and enlighten other people. In exchange, we hoped that others
would educate and enlighten us. It was the most inspiring idea I'd
ever come across, that people all over the world could unite to
benefit each other in that way.

But suddenly Wikipedia became very popular, and there was more money
than before, and people started jockeying for position, and now we're
tearing each other apart.

Everyone involved in this, no matter how right they feel they are, has
to somehow muster the strength and courage to put their individual
interests to one side and focus on the project, because it really is a
wonderful, unique, awe-inspiring thing we're involved in here. I
think we forget this because we see it from the inside. We get jaded.

The question for good people on all sides is: what can we do now to
help save and protect this community and its ideals?

Sarah
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...rch/091555.html


So what happened, SlimVirgin? Why are people putting their own self interests before the "good of the project"? Actually, the answer to this is best represented with an old "don't use drugs" public service announcement:


Accept the blame you have for influencing community behavior in this way, "Sarah". Then perhaps others will be capable of the introspection you require of everyone but yourself.

But this isn't necessarily about SlimVirgin--and maybe she asks a valid question on the surface--What is happening? Some of the old timers are getting a little paranoid as their fortresses crumble around them. There have been a lot of examples of a community at least trying to change itself. Even though, as optimistic as I'd like to be, it's probably fruitless.

So, what is happening? If anything is happening, is it good or bad? Is it substantive or just an illusion?
Kato
Phase one (2003-2005): The idealists, the encyclopedists, the basically honest gnome types. Excemplified by Larry Sanger. They got deposed by..

Phase two (2005-2007):
The power gamers, the clique builders, the POV pushers, the hidden agenda figures. Best exemplified by SlimVirgin.

Phase three (2007-2008):
The rebels vs The power gamers. The rise of the community gadflys who contribute little to content, but are engaged in an ongoing war with Phase Two. Best exemplified by Dan Tobias.
Moulton
What's happening is liminal social drama. That's what Sociologist Victor Turner calls the political reaction to a breach of expectations within the community.

If there were decent leadership at WP, they'd take this opportunity to steer the project into a direction that has a chance of working.

Other large open source projects operate under the umbrella of a Social Contract that includes the following elements:

1. Vision Statement

2. Mission Statement

3. Terms of Engagement

4. Dispute Resolution Process

In order for such a Social Contract to be meaningful, the participants must be identifiable and known to each other. That rules out anonymity.

For reasons unbeknownst to me, the cultish leadership at WP is simply too immature and too unprofessional to operate at the level of a functional social contract.
Peter Crane
QUOTE(Moulton @ Thu 6th March 2008, 8:33am) *

What's happening is liminal social drama. That's what Sociologist Victor Turner calls the political reaction to a breach of expectations within the community.

If there were decent leadership at WP, they'd take this opportunity to steer the project into a direction that has a chance of working.

Other large open source projects operate under the umbrella of a Social Contract that includes the following elements:

1. Vision Statement

2. Mission Statement

3. Terms of Engagement

4. Dispute Resolution Process

In order for such a Social Contract to be meaningful, the participants must be identifiable and known to each other. That rules out anonymity.

For reasons unbeknownst to me, the cultish leadership at WP is simply too immature and too unprofessional to operate at the level of a functional social contract.


Mission statements etc blah blah blah - sounds like the Civil Service. What you need is not ten thousand guidelines which all contradict each other (maybe thats deliberate?) and which are misinterpreted at will, but a set of fundamental rules laid down not by the commune but by the owners of ths site. otherwise its sheer anarchy. At the moment there are umpteen people acting like agents of the Gestapo who are often attacking good contributors and articles simply because they don't like them, whilst crap (in both senses) goes unscathed.
Moulton
The Terms of Engagement should not take the form of rules (IF ... THEN ... OR ELSE...), but rather should take the form of promises which the parties make towards each other, and conscientiously endeavor to live up to. That grounds the culture in Trust rather than Fear (of punishment for infractions).
LamontStormstar
QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 6th March 2008, 1:30am) *

Phase one (2003-2005): The idealists, the encyclopedists, the basically honest gnome types. Excemplified by Larry Sanger. They got deposed by..

Phase two (2005-2007):
The power gamers, the clique builders, the POV pushers, the hidden agenda figures. Best exemplified by SlimVirgin.

Phase three (2007-2008):
The rebels vs The power gamers. The rise of the community gadflys who contribute little to content, but are engaged in an ongoing war with Phase Two. Best exemplified by Dan Tobias.



Most of them still are the same type as there always was. People that come by and revert my hard work.
AB
QUOTE(BobbyBombastic @ Thu 6th March 2008, 8:17am) *
But this isn't necessarily about SlimVirgin--and maybe she asks a valid question on the surface--What is happening?


Yes, it is a valid question, but given those closest to
her aren't likely to give her the a good answer, and
she might not be able to listen to her opponents,
she'll most likely have to find the answer on her own.
JohnA
Phase 4: Revolution beginning with the defenestration of the old leadership. De-sysopping of hundreds of admins and locking of most articles.

New board brought in by venture capitalists and new leading scholar brought in to oversee the formation of a new editorial board.

Developers told to create new editorial structure with administrators effectively prevented from ever editing or even commissioning articles ever again. Editors may have one account and must be fully known. Articles are only changed on the real web-facing version that Google indexes.

Large numbers of stubs deleted and large portions of "cruft" basically told to buy their own servers and host it or it gets deleted in 30 days.




I can dream can't I?
Jonny Cache
Toss Another Virgin On The Volcano, Boys, The Project's Cooling Off!

Jonny cool.gif
Pumpkin Muffins
QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 6th March 2008, 8:30am) *

Phase one (2003-2005): The idealists, the encyclopedists, the basically honest gnome types. Excemplified by Larry Sanger. They got deposed by..

Phase two (2005-2007):
The power gamers, the clique builders, the POV pushers, the hidden agenda figures. Best exemplified by SlimVirgin.

Phase three (2007-2008):
The rebels vs The power gamers. The rise of the community gadflys who contribute little to content, but are engaged in an ongoing war with Phase Two. Best exemplified by Dan Tobias.


I've been around through all of that and heartily concur. I would add though that there are glimmers of hope in editors like Giano and Cla68.
gomi
The real question will be how SlimeVirgin reacts when someone asks her about her role in deleting the Marsden article at Jimbo's request? Will she flee and stay silent until the fracas blows over, or ban all involved?
One
QUOTE(gomi @ Thu 6th March 2008, 8:45pm) *

The real question will be how SlimeVirgin reacts when someone asks her about her role in deleting the Marsden article at Jimbo's request? Will she flee and stay silent until the fracas blows over, or ban all involved?

She did no such thing. Perhaps you're thinking of Thatcher's untenable unilateral Jan 1 deletion, which was DRV'd back to life? See log.
Derktar
QUOTE(gomi @ Thu 6th March 2008, 12:45pm) *

The real question will be how SlimeVirgin reacts when someone asks her about her role in deleting the Marsden article at Jimbo's request? Will she flee and stay silent until the fracas blows over, or ban all involved?

I quite enjoyed Steven Walling's reply right after:
QUOTE
In complete seriousness, just shut up and get back to work on the
encyclopedia. AGF and all the other values that make this thing great exist
because they are a necessity for producing good collaborative articles. The
more people focus on the project instead of meta discussion and the
personalities, the more they see how AGF isn't just a nice idea...it's
indispensable.


I am reminded of the phrase V uses in the classic V for Vendetta:
"If you are looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror."
EricBarbour
QUOTE
Mission statements etc blah blah blah - sounds like the Civil Service.


Exactly.
gomi
QUOTE(One @ Thu 6th March 2008, 12:50pm) *
QUOTE(gomi @ Thu 6th March 2008, 8:45pm) *
The real question will be how SlimeVirgin reacts when someone asks her about her role in deleting the Marsden article at Jimbo's request? Will she flee and stay silent until the fracas blows over, or ban all involved?

She did no such thing. Perhaps you're thinking of Thatcher's untenable unilateral Jan 1 deletion, which was DRV'd back to life? See log.

Perhaps I mis-spoke. SlimeVirgin Stubbed and full-protected the page before Thatcher deleted it. We wrote about it contemporaneously. Perhaps to a dyed-in-the-wool WPer, this isn't "deleting", but to most of us it is indistinguishable. To prove the point, Jimbo linked to our WR article when bragging to Marsden about his influence, and ability to get other people to do his dirty work.

No question, Slimey is Jimbo's handmaiden on this one -- who is going to call her out on it?
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