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Gold heart
Wikipedia becoming a porn site?
More money and publicity out of porn?
Well, at least, Jimbo should know about that aspect, if little about anything else!

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Bonnie_SG.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Bedtime.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Charm_SG.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:...lashorst%29.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Melissa_Wolf_10a.JPG
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Yo...lack_nude-2.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Black_genitalia.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Het1.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:IntimateMales.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Na..._%28nude%29.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Bed_Supperclub.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cunnilingus.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Orgasm.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Bedpeace2.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Love_and_Sex.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Bl...in_the_wood.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:El...h_electrode.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:NudeSamStripper.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Mesol15.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Th...d_Shankbone.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Model_in_bondage.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Da...n_a_dungeon.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Felicia_Fox_6.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ne...amateur9617.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Pi..._in_a_glass.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Drinking_urine.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sp...lashorst%29.jpg

Are any of these minors?
dogbiscuit
WikBack is discussing this at the moment, started by UninvitedCompany. Good on him.

A quick summary of that seems to be a mixture of:

Is commons a general repository or a resource for projects? (Answer so far: ???)

Eeeew!

Don't see the problem.

Is Wikipedia going to turn into Bomis?

Still, nice to see some indication that social responsibility needs to be considered and there is some debate. Trouble is for Wikipedia is that it is closely allied to the Internet philosophy "So what if it is illegal and depraved, that's someone else's problem" so don't expect a sound solution any time soon, especially as there are influential people who like this stuff.
The Joy
"Thus spake thy Godking Jimbo: 'And the porn shall inherit the wiki.'"
--Revulsions ch. 1, line 69. The King Jimbo Bible
Achromatic
In a triumph of integrity, all the SuicideGirl photos have been subtly Photoshopped, or unsubtly cropped to remove watermarks. I'm not exactly sure this falls within the definition of derivative work. Classy.

Further, I love the attempts to be all scientific. "A young girl, on a bed, spreading her vulva in direction of camera."

Ye gods.
Gold heart
QUOTE(Achromatic @ Fri 28th March 2008, 6:19pm) *

Further, I love the attempts to be all scientific. "A young girl, on a bed, spreading her vulva in direction of camera."

Ye gods.

Wales's problem is when Wikipedia becomes a repository for paedophilia material.

That's when the law will get very focussed, and Wales then cannot wash his hands.

Also, admins should shape-up and start to take responsibility too, for if they are not part of the solution, then they are part of the problem too, and as culpable as Wales.
Count DeMonet
QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 28th March 2008, 6:17pm) *

"Thus spake thy Godking Jimbo: 'And the porn shall inherit the wiki.'"
--Revulsions Revisions ch. 1, line 69. The King Jimbo Bible


FTFY

... & Larry Sanger

Sceptre
Personally, it's not the amount of sex articles Wikipedia has that unnerves me, it's the high proportion of BDSM-related articles (and I know I sound a bit prudish) - it's kinda worrying when the Category "BDSM equipment" (50 articles) has as many articles as its parent, "Sex toys" (55 articles)
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Gold heart @ Fri 28th March 2008, 5:20pm) *

Wikipedia becoming a porn site?
More money and publicity out of porn?
Well, at least, Jimbo should know about that aspect, if little about anything else!
...

If you're going to put those links up, you really have to include this artistic piece, which was a collateral victim in another expunged thread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jimbogoesswimming.jpg

As I said, I dare you to come up with any caption which improves it. Some things are perfect as is.
UseOnceAndDestroy
QUOTE(Sceptre @ Fri 28th March 2008, 8:50pm) *

Personally, it's not the amount of sex articles Wikipedia has that unnerves me, it's the high proportion of BDSM-related articles (and I know I sound a bit prudish) - it's kinda worrying when the Category "BDSM equipment" (50 articles) has as many articles as its parent, "Sex toys" (55 articles)


Stop fishing for attention.

Personally, I'd be more unnerved that 0-6-0 locomotives outnumbers both of those together. I mean, for pete's sake: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_1076_Class, not even a good picture of a pumpin' engine to be seen.

dtobias
Put on your best Springsteen voice, and sing:

Porn in the USA!
They like porn in the USA!

The Joy
Wikipedia: The free pornucopia.
luke
QUOTE(Count DeMonet @ Fri 28th March 2008, 7:27pm) *

QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 28th March 2008, 6:17pm) *

"Thus spake thy Godking Jimbo: 'And the porn shall inherit the wiki.'"
--Revulsions Revisions ch. 1, line 69. The King Jimbo Bible


FTFY

... & Larry Sanger


err Not Larry Sanger:-

QUOTE
II. Fundamental policies concerning content.

1. The content of the Citizendium will always be open content.
2. It will be the project's aim to make the content of the Citizendium:

* accurate
* based on common experience, published, credible research, and expert opinion
* neutral in this sense
* legal and responsible
* family-friendly



Peter Damian
Interesting to see that AnotherSolipsist has been blocked

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...notherSolipsist

There is a fierce discussion on his page here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ano...st#Block_notice

I see however that his (or her?) edits to Zoophilia have survived the block.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=197128780

My view is that these subjects should simply not be in an encyclopedia of this kind. They deserve careful academic treatment and scrutiny and investigation. There is a place for them in a proper peer-reviewed encyclopedia. But in an encyclopedia that 'anyone can edit'? Forget about it. Just don't go there.

What say ye?



QUOTE
I've blocked you for tendentious pro-pedophile editing and trolling. For instance among many your edit built around the phrase "It's also inaccurate to define this as a "pro-pedophile belief," because anyone who's familiar with any of the research on child sexual abuse should subscribe to it" is not acceptable because it (1) is inflammatory and the functional equivilent of trolling and (2) supports editing which brings the Wikipedia project into disrepute.

You have been blocked for 72 hours for the time being. I am recommending this be expanded to a permanent block. You may appeal this block directly to the Arbitration Committee by email and in no other venue.

NOTICE TO ADMINISTRATORS: per precedent this block should not be overturned except by or at the direction of the ArbCom nor should appeals other than by email to the ArbCom be considered, email me if you have questions about this. Herostratus (talk) 04:52, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

If believing that child sexual abuse isn't invariably harmful is reason enough to ban me, then being banned is a necessary consequence of having any expertise in this area. Of course, the occasional absence of harm doesn't mean CSA's not wrong: it is, and should remain the subject of severe criminal penalties. But this is because a prepubescent child is biologically incapable of giving informed consent. To continue to maintain that the real problem is some inherent harmfulness, despite the total lack of support for that proposition, only serves activists for its legalization.
You should consider reading David Finkelhor's paper on the ethics of sex between adults and children,[1], or Part I, chapter 10 of Ethics and Sex by Igor Primoratz. I can email you the text of the former, if you like, but I recommend the latter -- it spends more time on the fallacy of "inherent harmfulness" and establishes the consent argument much more soundly. --AnotherSolipsist (talk) 21:02, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I would unblock you, A.S., were I an administrator. It looks as though you're being blocked because you said something that someone personally does not like. This Is A Dangerous Precedent To Set! Right, Wrong, or Indifferent, making a statement of fact or opinion on a TALK page is virtually never a good reason for a block, let alone 72 hours! Hero, while he often uses sound judgement, is WAY off on this one. I'm not saying that you are right; I'm not saying that you're wrong. I am saying, though, that expressing a relevant opinion, especially based on scientific text (it appears), in the context of a discussion, is the entire point of Wikipedia. I am amazed and even scared that admins now block for comments they dislike. FWIW, I have appreciated your contributions and comments, even when I have not agreed with them or believed them to be too extreme in either direction. And your ood faith and civility far outshine at least a couple of your naysayers. I'm at a loss... The setting of this precedent... wow... • VigilancePrime • • • 02:39 (UTC) 28 Mar '08

I hate to say it, but I'm becoming more and more and more disappointed with Wikipedia, or at least with its admins. This is such a horrible misjudgment that it's not even funny! For the last time, defending Wikipedia ideals, such as NPOV, is not advocation of pedophilia or the pro-pedophile movement. Seriously, admins should provide substantiating evidence before setting blocks on people. The reasoning provided above definitely does not warrant a block, and it's clear that Herostratus - whether intentionally or not - misrepresented AnotherSolipsist's editing (even the very edit to which the admin provided a diff). ~ Homologeo (talk) 06:34, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:AnotherSolipsist"



This is also interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._%281998%29

It's an article about academic research suggesting that paedophilia is not harmful. This is what alerted the blocking administrator.
dogbiscuit
There is one massive Undue Weight issue that subverts a wide range of articles. The undue weight is to the proposition that child sex abuse or bestiality might be considered harmless. That view in the real world is clearly held my the vast majority of the world to be both an extreme minority opinion, and by a similar majority, to be a view so repugnant as to potentially be a criminal activity to encourage or support such happenings. It is a distortion of NPOV to allow this abuse-friendly reporting style.

The fundamental issue is that it is not the role of any encyclopedia to change hearts and minds, but instead it should report the current state of knowledge. There should be no particular problem with Wikipedia "suppressing" the voice of pro-abusers as in the real world that voice is also suppressed. Only in Waki-Wiki-World would people seriously consider that people wishing to re-educate the world to appreciate criminal acts should seriously be given a free voice. That is not to say that if people want to do that they cannot in other venues, but an encyclopedia is not the venue.

In the wider context, it says a lot about the failure of the editing mechanism that a small group of people can hold sway over a significant number of articles and the powers that be seem unable to either perceive that there is a problem or are unable to devise an appropriate response.

I think that there are analogies with the Jersey situation here: where it has become clear that in the 1970s and 1980s, children's homes were used as a vehicle for systematic abuse, sometimes, it appears, culminating in murder, and like in Belgium, those responsible for supervision up to the highest levels of Government appear to have colluded.

This is back to moral responsibility of WMF. They should remind themselves every now and again, that tolerating the promotion of abuse on Wikipedia is their problem and they may end up with blood on their conscience in the future.
Achromatic
QUOTE
If believing that child sexual abuse isn't invariably harmful is reason enough to ban me, then being banned is a necessary consequence of having any expertise in this area.


Wow, that's quite the audacious POV to push, there, AnotherSolipsist.
EricBarbour
QUOTE(Achromatic @ Fri 28th March 2008, 11:19am) *

In a triumph of integrity, all the SuicideGirl photos have been subtly Photoshopped, or unsubtly cropped to remove watermarks. I'm not exactly sure this falls within the definition of derivative work. Classy.


My turn!!!

http://ericsaysfuckyou.blogspot.com/2008/0...-wikipedia.html

tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Achromatic @ Sat 29th March 2008, 7:42pm) *

QUOTE
If believing that child sexual abuse isn't invariably harmful is reason enough to ban me, then being banned is a necessary consequence of having any expertise in this area.


Wow, that's quite the audacious POV to push, there, AnotherSolipsist.

Well, "abuse" is harmful by definition. But to even discuss the matter of sexual abuse, there are weighty issues to slog through, involving definition. It sex with legal minors always abuse? Or just sex with pre-pubescents? There's a pretty good article on Wiki about age of consent, which makes the point that between puberty and majority, "consent" is about as gray as anything else in the law. Not only does it vary from era to era and country to country, but widely from state to state within the US (for example). Sometimes it even varies by age difference between participants. Is the "child" 5 or 15? Or is it less than 15 in Mexico, but less than 16 in Alabama? Does the state of holy matrimony make an act which would otherwise be child-abuse, into something that isn't? (Great Balls of Fire, Jerry Lee!)

I note that sex with children before puberty is an area where there is far more agreement. Especially when one participant is NOT a minor.

Gold heart
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sat 29th March 2008, 8:54pm) *

QUOTE(Achromatic @ Fri 28th March 2008, 11:19am) *

In a triumph of integrity, all the SuicideGirl photos have been subtly Photoshopped, or unsubtly cropped to remove watermarks. I'm not exactly sure this falls within the definition of derivative work. Classy.


My turn!!!

http://ericsaysfuckyou.blogspot.com/2008/0...-wikipedia.html

tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

Eric, did you make that blog, ugh! This is quite a serious issue that will test the "Wiki Foundations" actual responsibilities on what goes up on Wikipedia website. This will have huge ramifications for the whole Wikipedia Foundation, and Wikipedia will not be able to hide behind Florida law for too long.
EricBarbour
QUOTE
Eric, did you make that blog, ugh!


Its URL is "ericsaysfuckyou.blogspot.com". So, it's quite likely. smile.gif

QUOTE
This is quite a serious issue


Yes, it is. All the more reason to mock WP's fearless leaders.
If the Perverted Justice people saw this thread, they'd have even
more ammo for their "WP is full of pedophiles" campaign.

If one admin has a drop of guts, he/she would delete that whole
list of photos immediately. Just checked--still there.
Gold heart
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sat 29th March 2008, 10:36pm) *

If one admin has a drop of guts, he/she would delete that whole
list of photos immediately. Just checked--still there.

Some on the photo subjects look under age, that's my perspective.

Good challenge to the admins, I doubt if there's one with the spine to do so, for standing out can take real guts, and most admins will fail there.

Sooner, rather than later, a watch-dog will take position, and that's when Wales will be impelled to make a stand, or else?
JohnA
Completely by coincidence, the Cunnilingus pic has just been deleted for copy vio.
Milton Roe
Completely by coincidence, the Cunnilingus pic has just been deleted for copy vio. tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

cyofee
WR is pretty much the best place to use if you want something done on Wikipedia.
EricBarbour
QUOTE(cyofee @ Sat 29th March 2008, 4:48pm) *

WR is pretty much the best place to use if you want something done on Wikipedia.


But only if you can point out something that embarrasses them....

forgive the crosspost, but it's relevant:

Don Murphy brought it up...
Gold heart
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sun 30th March 2008, 1:15am) *

QUOTE(cyofee @ Sat 29th March 2008, 4:48pm) *

WR is pretty much the best place to use if you want something done on Wikipedia.


But only if you can point out something that embarrasses them....

forgive the crosspost, but it's relevant:

Don Murphy brought it up...


3 gone
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:...lashorst%29.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Cunnilingus.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ne...amateur9617.jpg


Still, some of the suspected under-age ones remain.
Chris Croy
If the Wikimedia foundation was serious about creating the free content people really wanted, they'd take the entire budget, blow it on buying the rights to all sorts of porn and then release it under the GFDL or CC-BY-SA.

---

Age of consent laws are significantly stricter than most people believe they should be. That it's still illegal for two high school students to have sex with each other in many states is pretty mind-boggling. The main obstacle is that advocating loosening the laws would be an elaborate form of political suicide. No-one is going to get re-elected when their opponent can say with complete honesty, "This man fought to make it legal for old men to prey on your children!"
taiwopanfob
QUOTE(Gold heart @ Sun 30th March 2008, 1:32am) *
Still, some of the suspected under-age ones remain.


There are special tracts of legislation about this kind of thing, at least in the USA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_2257

Wikipedia/the Commons would easily fall into the "secondary producer" category under this law. This means they must keep detailed records about the ages of all models at the time the photographs were taken. It should be a simple no-brainer then: given any doubt at all, the material should be deleted on the spot.

You could probably make the WMF's life pretty miserable for a bit by submitting any 2257 questionable material that survives this episode to the DoJ for their appraisal. I'm sure they love looking at the stuff!
guy
QUOTE(Chris Croy @ Sun 30th March 2008, 3:55am) *

That it's still illegal for two high school students to have sex with each other in many states is pretty mind-boggling.

You mean there are states where it's legal for an adult to have sex with a minor just because they're still at school?
Chris Croy
QUOTE(guy @ Sat 29th March 2008, 11:50pm) *

QUOTE(Chris Croy @ Sun 30th March 2008, 3:55am) *

That it's still illegal for two high school students to have sex with each other in many states is pretty mind-boggling.

You mean there are states where it's legal for an adult to have sex with a minor just because they're still at school?

There is no state with an explicit 'high school' exception. I was more alluding to the possibility of two minors having sex and both being charged with statutory rape, which has actually happened.
Gold heart
QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Sun 30th March 2008, 4:14am) *


There are special tracts of legislation about this kind of thing, at least in the USA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_2257

Does this legislation apply to Florida?

Then it must be the "gold standard" for Wikipedia too.

Does Wikipedia apply the Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act to its uploads.

Maybe someone should test it with an RfC
Replacement Party
QUOTE(Gold heart @ Sun 30th March 2008, 3:20pm) *

QUOTE(taiwopanfob @ Sun 30th March 2008, 4:14am) *


There are special tracts of legislation about this kind of thing, at least in the USA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/18_USC_2257

Does this legislation apply to Florida?


It applies to every state in the Union and any foreign adult business that wants to sell its product in the United States.

Florida is an extremely conservative state, btw. You don't want to run afoul of obscenity laws if you're based in Florida.
Michaeldsuarez
QUOTE(danielaword @ Thu 2nd September 2010, 11:43pm) *

: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tommy2010yamiga.jpeg here's tommy2010 molesting native girl, promising her palace, but after rapin her, just dumps her as usual!


Dude, you can't throw accusations of rape around like that. The image description says that she's his friend ("amiga"), and he's not touching her inappropriately (you can see both his hands: one on her shoulder and one to his side). In my opinion, you fabricated this information, and publishing fabricated information is grounds for libel.

Also, I don't believe that "hit lists" such as the one you've created, especially since it's inaccurate, are appropriate here.

Did a pedophile harass you in the past or something? I don't understand your obsession with "wiki-pedos".
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