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Eva Destruction
While there are worse articles about, can anyone beat Post-post-modernism for the most incomprehensible article that checks all the Wikipedia tick-boxes (references, sections etc)? As far as I can tell, at no point in this 13k of gibberish does it actually say what P-P-M is...
Moulton
If you think that's bad, take a look at Beyond Postmodernism.
Eva Destruction
QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 20th April 2008, 9:36pm) *

If you think that's bad, take a look at Beyond Postmodernism.


Take a look? I AfD'd it...
Moulton
And the author of it said to go ahead and delete it, as he now agrees it would be more appropriate on his blog.
Eva Destruction
QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 20th April 2008, 10:13pm) *

And the author of it said to go ahead and delete it, as he now agrees it would be more appropriate on his blog.


Normally I would, but in this case there are multiple authors, so CSDG7 won't apply (hell, one of them might come along and rewrite it - stranger things have happened
WordBomb
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Sun 20th April 2008, 2:26pm) *

While there are worse articles about, can anyone beat Post-post-modernism for the most incomprehensible article that checks all the Wikipedia tick-boxes (references, sections etc)? As far as I can tell, at no point in this 13k of gibberish does it actually say what P-P-M is...
An article's unwillingness to commit to a description of the very thing it purports to describe might just be the ultimate expression of post-post-modernism.
Proabivouac
QUOTE(WordBomb @ Mon 21st April 2008, 3:28am) *

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Sun 20th April 2008, 2:26pm) *

While there are worse articles about, can anyone beat Post-post-modernism for the most incomprehensible article that checks all the Wikipedia tick-boxes (references, sections etc)? As far as I can tell, at no point in this 13k of gibberish does it actually say what P-P-M is...
An article's unwillingness to commit to a description of the very thing it purports to describe might just be the ultimate expression of post-post-modernism.


This vacuous definition is almost classic:
QUOTE

Postmodernism is defined in relation to what it comes after: modernism.


Perhaps post-postmodernism is defined in relation to what it comes after: postmodernism.
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Mon 21st April 2008, 3:43am) *

Perhaps post-postmodernism is defined in relation to what it comes after: postmodernism.

Not a joke. For you are literally correct. Welcome to the world of Social Text http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Text and (post)postmodern English Literature.
Peter Damian
I agree that the introduction needs some work, but it is not such a bad article. (I haven't looked at 'Beyond Modernism' however.

The substance of the article gives some detail on what the subject is, and it is a lot better than most of the rubbish in the philosophy and aesthetics section. So I would say strong keep. If I had a vote, of course.
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Sun 20th April 2008, 4:26pm) *

While there are worse articles about, can anyone beat Post-post-modernism for the most incomprehensible article that checks all the Wikipedia tick-boxes (references, sections, etc)? As far as I can tell, at no point in this 13k of gibberish does it actually say what P-P-M is …


As it happens, I am an expert on Post*Modernism — which includes Post²Modernism as its 3rd term — having coined that ∑ary general term some decades ago.

The (*) of Post*Modernism is of course the Kleene Star of Fomal Language Theory, defined as follows:

X* = X° + X¹ + X² + X³ + …

Hence:

Post*Modern = Post°Modern + Post¹Modern + Post²Modern + Post³Modern + …

In ∑:

Post*Modern = Modern + Post-Modern + Post-Post-Modern + Post-Post-Post-Modern + …

Of course, I am not a Re*Libel source, so the ∑ of my contributions to Da Post*Modern Scene are of no interest to Wikipediots.

Jon cool.gif
Eleland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergy is still my pick for the most incomprehensible "legit" article. "Various authors have struggled to clarify their usage, and ambiguity seems to continue in the literature to this day..."
Amarkov
QUOTE(Eleland @ Sat 26th April 2008, 7:47pm) *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergy is still my pick for the most incomprehensible "legit" article. "Various authors have struggled to clarify their usage, and ambiguity seems to continue in the literature to this day..."


It's incomprehensible, but at least there is a definition to be found in there. After ten minutes of trying to figure out what "post-postmodernism" is, I still have no clue.

For the curious, an (imprecise) definition of emergy runs something along the lines of "energy which has, in the past, been used in a system to do work".
The Joy
Postmodernism was something I had to study for my history degree. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now.

I prefer the definition of postmodernism by The Simpsons: "Weird for the sake of being weird."

The Joy
Kato
QUOTE(The Joy @ Sun 27th April 2008, 7:42am) *

Postmodernism was something I had to study for my history degree. It made no sense then and it makes no sense now.

I prefer the definition of postmodernism by The Simpsons: "Weird for the sake of being weird."

The Joy

Bah!

Just think of architectural styles, which is where the term comes from.

Here's modernism. Intended to be a pure fusion of form and function. Usually minimal.
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Here's post-modernism. Which takes a far more ornamental approach. And borrows from previous architectural styles. Often in a playful or ironic fashion:
FORUM Image

This idea of post-modernism, an ironic mash-up of previous styles or works, began to be applied to other artistic forms. Eventually becoming an intellectual movement of sorts encompassing ideas such as moral or cultural relativity and so on.

PS. I'm sure Awbrey will tell you something completely different.
Kato
I've just been reading the Postmodernism article on WP. It's terrible.

But it is interesting reading how techies cope with subjects like this. The crucial architectural and artistic roots of postmodernism barely make the lede.

Humanities and WP just don't mix.

Someone please fix it up and make it legible.
Peter Damian
Yes, I agree, terrible. Spelling mistakes, lack of thread, OR, everything.

But, er, who can fix it?

QUOTE
Humanities and WP just don't mix.


Carve that in stone or postmodern concrete.

And what is that tag at the top saying "The examples and perspective in this article or section may not represent a worldwide view of the subject." Is that another way of saying it's wrong, or bad, or crap?

OK I could take no more. I made this edit from an IP

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

with the comment (better introduction courtesy of Wikipedia Review - this article is really terrible and deserves better). And the text

QUOTE

Postmodern is a term originating from architecture, literally 'after the modern', denoting a style that is more ornamental than modernism, and which borrows from previous architectural styles, often in a playful or ironic fashion.


Just deleted this

QUOTE
Postmodernism is problematically constrained by definitions, as it involves the very perspectives that rupture claims of the imputed or imposed foundations of knowledge-production through its critical, deconstructive, and liberatory considerations. Therefore, scholars of [[critical theory]], [[philosophy]], [[architecture]], [[art]], [[literature]], and [[culture]], and other disciplines, can have no authoritative stance from which to define it completely or with more or less accuracy, unless invoking a ontological difference to some aspect of modernism or modernity. The following representations of postmodernism in their historical, cultural, artistic, and philosophical discourses, are thus necessarily tentative, fragmentary and, as befits the project of postmodernism, time-bound and inherently ‘open’ to contestation."


More work here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=208495529

with comment "slightly improve by moving text in body to introduction - courtesy of the evil Troll from Wikipedia Review".

I left a message on Jimbo's page

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=208485834

telling them to stop the troll.


QUOTE
Thank you for some of your edits to Postmodernism. They're improvements. I haven't looked at them all, however.

I also notice that you appear desperate for attention via Jimmy Wales's talk page. That's rather silly. Just concentrate on making intelligent edits, with intelligent edit summaries, OK? -- Hoary (talk) 10:26, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Whiling away a Sunday morning. Why aren't you banning or blocking me? I am a troll from the Wikipedia Review. Look:

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=96600

I am a BANNED USER. You can't allow edits by banned users, even if they are improvements. 86.133.180.53 (talk) 10:28, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Moulton
Does WP have a Feature Article on Nose Tweaking?
Jon Awbrey
Anyone with sufficient pride of craft to write a decent article on any subject is well-advised to leave those surly bonds — The Poopy-Cage of MUDDernism — and write it ELSEWHERE!

Jonny "Coriolanus" Cache cool.gif —
Limited E-Gaggment —
Bak 4 1 Nite Only …
Moulton
The above is an example of post-modern postism.
Peter Damian
I have tidied up the article quite a bit. Not been blocked, despite my message on Wales' page, and got this amusing message:

QUOTE
Talk page follow-up
I wasn't paying much attention; I just patrol recent changes a lot and came across your edits, and then looked at your contribs after the fact. I have no idea what the circumstances of your initial ban were, but why not knock off the 'advertisements' that you've been banned under another name, register a new account, and keep fixing up articles? If you can withhold the abrasive comments in your edit summaries, you'd be a very good editor. WP takes civility pretty seriously. Fogster (talk) 17:23, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Moulton
Mebbe you could re-register under the name BannedMeansBanned.
Krimpet
Peter Damian
QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 27th April 2008, 6:51pm) *

Mebbe you could re-register under the name BannedMeansBanned.


Now there's an idea.

PS did anyone grasp the significance of the YouTube thingy posted by Krimpet. I listened to it with enjoyment but Krimpet, what is it?
Moulton
The title of the Devo number was "Post Post-Modern Man."

And if you do adopt the moniker, BannedMeansBanned, I have an avatar for you that Somey can no doubt slide into the gallery here...

FORUM Image

Justly Banned
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