http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_Dramatica

How long until it gets the AFD treatment yet again?

I wonder if enough references are supplied?

lol - there are badzillions of refs.

Actually, I bet the better question is how long until someone has the stones to link it back to http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com, like every other article on every other website on Wikipedia.

Holy shit that was fast:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...=edit&redlink=1

Deleted already. And out of process! Wheel war!

... and gone again! That didn't take long. I had just declined a protect request, too

So on what grounds was it deleted? I hardly give a shit about any of this anymore, but after I found out it was DRV yesterday I knew this was going to be a circus.

Looks like the drama will unfold at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...matica_restored

Adam Bishop deleted Encyclopdedia Dramatica, commenting, "Nice try."

I just asked the deleting admin, Adam Bishop. I don't care either way myself, not being a huge fan, but am wondering what the rationale was ....

I hope none of the Good People left on Wikipedia do anything retarded over the article to get deadminned.

Full log, for the curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...pedia+Dramatica

The big problem with ED is that it's "an 'encyclopedia' anyone can edit."

Yes, we know that Web 2.0 technologies that let anyone write anything online are evil. Lets not divert this--this thread is best suited to chronicle what will be a huge war over this article.

Does anyone have a copy of the one just deleted?

Thinking on it a bit more, I agree with you. Other people's reputations aren't all that important. What's important is that people can write whatever they want without consequence, even if it's libelous.

This isn't the thread for this. Can we fork this off so Pro and whoever is interested can debate the evils of the intarweb?

Why not simply proceed with the discussion about the deletion debate? I'm not stopping anyone else from posting here about it, nor do I intend to flood the thread.

It's pretty much the same as the content shown at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Running/...from_March_2008 plus a few minor additions.

... and back again, courtesy of FT2. So all's well with the world and the DrahmaMobile grinds to a halt

FT2 has restored the article, is this GFDL compliant?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

I know for a fact that many, many revisions are missing from there.

Thats the new version only - the old history has been put somewhere else I am assuming.

Edit: wrong that hiostory goes back a long way. I am assuming there has been a massive amount of oversighting then.

No, that includes 2004-2006, look again: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

Its like only a selective restore was done, and they merged the post-Running/Shii/Urban Rose history and content with the original article history from back in my editing days--its obvious revisions were either left off the restore or oversighted... many revisions... the easiest giveaway is the lack of my name, or MONGO, in there.

Adam Bishop accuses FT2 of wheel warring? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=212308290

This is a rubbish article, and should be deleted for that reason only (unless improved). For the following reason. If I write something on medieval philosophy, I try to make it intelligible to someone reading it in the 21st century. By the same token, any article on a 21st century subject (such as this) should be intelligible to anyone from the medieval period.

Indeed, I regard myself as effectively from the medieval era when it comes down to this sort of stuff. In short, the article was completely unintelligible to me. It is only intelligible to those who already understand the subject, and thus useless for encyclopedic purposes.

[edit] For example, the opening sentence says that ED covers 'drama'. This means that it covers openings at the Royal Court Theatre, goings on in the thespian world, includes reviews of significant recent plays, and so forth? I don't see that it does.

Does it cover the Shreklisch Onion-Layer Character Model from Drama Theory?

mmm I corrected myself. When I looked there were no deleted edits - and about 42 edits in total. Now the pre DRV edits have been deleted leaving a small number of deleted edits spanning a number of years - far fewer than should be there. There has been no logged page moves apart from the recent ones so noone has done the move and delete trick. Which means as afar as I can tell the old version of the article has been oversighted.

Do you suspect fowl play? In other words, is someone on WP being a chicken?

And it's about a "website", which must mean that it covers a location that is ideal for spiders to spin their strands of silk.

Lots of words and concepts have changed since the middle ages, and even since the early 20th century (the word "gay" has a whole different sense, for instance). Are you really claiming that the last 1000 years need to be ignored in writing articles?



Could there be other versions of the article under different spellings, like with the "ae" ligature, "ae" as separate letters, and the spelling with just the "e" (that was actually used for this version)?

You could be right there. That would explain it - i could see no rational reson for oversight to be honest.

Eit: Gold star to Dan - the old article was here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

One of life's very minor irritations for me is that the "Encyclopedia" that anyone can edit always gives me a spell-check error. Not irritating enough to splash out on a server farm for a proper English fork, but still.

I have a certain sympathy with Erik and his collection of biographies.

The old history still exists - all 787 revisions (!) of it - but most of it's been made sysop-only, I assume because of the assorted BLP violations lurking in it.

Guy Chapman makes some interesting points:



I didn't know ED had a pro-elf agenda.

Also, note that Guy is unconvinced that anyone outside the ED community cares about the site at all, but he knows of its traffic and advertising needs, and even (apparently) that their budget almost went unfunded at one time. Sounds like he cares about the site quite a lot, ergo, Guy Chapman is inside the Encyclopedia Dramatica community!

Well obviously I was making the example an extreme one for humorous purposes, but the point remains. An encyclopedia article should inform a person about a subject, and should be reasonably ‘accessible’. I really hadn’t the faintest idea what most of this article was about. Really. What is 4chan? What actually is the meaning of ‘drama’ in this context? And so on. It reads like an article in a school or student magazine, containing references and jokes that the insider will understand, but the outsider will not penetrate. That is not what an encyclopedia is for.

[edit] I googled around for better definitions or explanations of what ED was and this seemed quite good:

Why shouldn't trolls support elves?

Isn't it supposed to be on AfD?

It is now. Of course, if an article on some obscure web comic had this level of sourcing we'd have clowns like David Gerard and Phil Sandifer moving Heaven and Earth to save it (think expert closes lol).

And some little-seen account shows up to call everybody who votes to keep it a "terrorist sympathizer".

Peter... you do know the little blue words are links, yes? If you were unclear as to what 4chan is, you could simply click on the word, and read about it. That's what Wikipedia is great for, amirite? The article absolutely does not have to contain every piece of information about everything mentioned in it, because those other topics will usually have their own pages, which serve to inform the reader.

As for "drama", well, that's fairly simple. When a guy breaks up with his girlfriend by posting on LiveJournal that she's a big stupid whore, that's drama. Stupid shit, essentially, that causes a load of hard-feelings and gets a lot of people wound up over, really, nothing. Internets drama is, frankly, a tale told by idiots; full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

88-36, 70.9% in the keep side currently. Honestly, this is shocking me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...d_nomination%29

An AfD is not a vote.

Oh, I know. It's just astonishing to me that there is THAT level of support.

The article fails to mention the founder girlvinyl, who's fairly notable. Current ED lore is that she sold it to a "Joseph Evers" but I think he's fictitious. I have sources that say the current owner is Andrew Thornton aka Ajt, who has been there from early on.

What's really interesting was their day jobs. girlvinyl was Senior Network Security Analyst at the US Department of Energy's National Nuclear Security Administration when she founded ED, while Ajt has worked for the US government's DRMS.

Emphasis on "drama" as "trauma" (they are the same word root), meaning in this case (rather than the classic one which seeks to heal trauma by catharsis) to seek to simply create new hurt. No catharsis, since this sort of drama is too stupid and too simple to invoke catharsis, which by definition requires understanding and learning. No, this type of prodrama involves the impulse to practical jokery, but worse. It involves jerking somebody's chain for no particular reason, except to see a reaction. Trolls on the internet being good examples. We may call it pro- or protodrama, since it's only an ugly version of the very first part of classical Greek drama.

Protodrama is often mistaken for social cruelty. For good reason, since most of it is just that.

This kind of behavior is not classical but, in the modern sense, more closely related to the romantic, and hyper-romantic. It is performance "art". It does things for the "shock value". It enjoys "deconstruction." It is the Clockwork Orange where vandalism and destruction is sought as artform by people too talentless to have some type of actual creation as their artform.

A subgroup of protodrama for its own sake is expression of outrage by people left out of social networks. I just saw this this one played well by Butters Scotch as Professor Chaos, with his minion General Disarray. Those of you who don't watch Southpark should try to locate your sense of humor. Probably it's under the couch with dustballs and the last slipper you lost.

On the internet, those who can't get laid and thus spend their time indef blocking people out of frustration on Wikipedia, are called "administrators." Most of them love proto-drama, but would never admit it. However, when other people are under their thumb and making a fuss, it makes them feel alive. They can't get that feeling, out in their real lives.

On the otherside, are certain people who went to WP not to write an encyclopedia, but to create drama, as they do everywhere else in their sorry lives. It worked for awhile, but now they've been kicked out and want to continue. Ah, Encyclopedia Dramatica! Made for this purpose.

Now, the various Star Trek/ Mindworm creatures who feed on negative emotions, never quantified the chaotic and unpleasant effect they had on the world. But the interenet drama addicts actually have made an advance, and have a word for this: in internet slang, it's called "lulz." I do not know the pronunciation. Lultz, probably, as in the German or Yiddish z. Derivations are claimed by way of LOLs, but any LOLs are the kind you get from putting one of your socks over your cat's head, to see what he does, while trying frantically to get it off. The connotation is hyper-proto-dramatic, and perhaps more than a little gay. As in:

"My god, did you hear Dave's story about traveling to Egypt, being robbed of his passport by the taxi driver? Then finally journeying to his once-in-a-lifetime visit to the Valley of the Kings, only to find himself in baloon-ride over Luxor, with an attack of explosive traveler's diarrhea? Which he couldn't hold, because he's gay, and a Bottom? Too much information. Why did he have to tell us this?"

"To see the look on your face."

On ED: "For the lulz"

That really creeps the hell out of me. It's actually a little bit terrifying.

Hu12 has shown his power in getting a dissenting Keep voter banned from the project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Adm...ock_an_ED_troll

That's really interesting.

Still, I don't see how founding a website with content like Encyclopedia Dramatica does could be very good for one's public profile, especially in the hands of prospective employers and suchlike. Sure, it's user-generated content, but it's treading a fine line indeed.

But yeah, to be quite honest, even I am not sure of the details. If Joseph Evers is fictional, then what about girlvinyl? Isn't she actually just Sherrod DeGrippo? Andrew Thornton, Ajt, seems plausible enough as he gave me my sysop powers there.

My philosophy is that the prerequisite for writing a parodic biography of someone else is to first write and publish a parodic biography of yourself.

If you can do that and not die of Narcissistic Wounding, you can go into the business.

Or you could open a Paintball Emporium.

I don't think anyone denies that girlvinyl is Sherrod.
The original, deleted WP article about ED is available at wikitruth and goes into a little detail of it's early history

More recently, this snippet from an #ed IRC log says - "Topic is ED is dying. Paypal carasov at yahoo.com or send a check payable to edrama llc ...". Elsewhere on ED, the plea is "Send Jew Gold to EDRAMA LLC. c/o AJT ...".

Whois for ED is obscured by proxy, but the netblock it operates from is owned by Edrama LLC. a Delaware corporation formed on 02/20/2007. It's Chicago phone number is the same one that was used by Lulzcon last summer. The lulzcon domain is registered to Sherrod. From the pieces I see, I'm guessing that Sherrod/girlvinyl and Andrew/Ajt are business partners and more. A former employee of Thorton Industries LLC lists Sherrod as a managing member, and girlvinyl's copyright page says that Thornton is her agent.

The Paypal account carasov is likely to be the ED admin OldDirtyBtard who is Sean Carasov, a Project Chanology participant and minor celebrity who was road manager for the Beastie Boys and associate of the Clash. He was recently outed by the CoS on youtube and was arrested for criminal threats after an apparently false accusation was made by a Scilon following a demonstration. Charges were dropped and a lawsuit is being contemplated.

So, yeah, given the above, I'm thinking "Joseph Evers" is a mythic figure.

The biggest problem is that one of these sites is a complete fucking joke. The other is intended to be humorous.

Actually, according to wikipedia. not only vinygirl could or could not be Sherrod, but it's not posible to prove reliably that she is the founder of ED http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Encyclop...ox.2C_continued.

This picture http://www.webcitation.org/5XyEB7MVC

Is odd. Ghettofinger (Ajt) looks in his thirties. Sherrod looks in her 40s. Much older than the other pics I've seen.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/sherrod



Dairy industry!



Hmm as for OldDirtyBtard,

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/ED:Map
OldDirtyBtard: Londonistan, England
then later it has
OldDirtyBtard: HelLA, California

http://www.laist.com/2008/04/05/charges_dropped.php

This says scientology murdered his cat by putting amonia on the foot. That's really sick! Even sicker is he named his cat "mudkips"

An article
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sean_Carasov

If he is the same Sean Carasov in http://books.google.com/books?id=zou4D6wYj...z5cZIOqQo&hl=en

Then the man is in his 40s. I am not sure, though, but here is a picture of him hosted by ED http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:ROR7.jpg

The article is up for deletion again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...d_nomination%29