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Herschelkrustofsky
This is an interesting tactic -- there seems to be a stealth delete function that I was unaware of. The article is not listed as an AfD, but Will wants to erase it because I wrote it back in the day. Unless someone has it on their watchlist, it is doubtful that anyone is aware of what WB is up to. If anyone wants to save it, all they have to do is edit it (apparently,) and Will's plot will be foiled.
Sarcasticidealist
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 6th October 2008, 7:53am) *
This is an interesting tactic -- there seems to be a stealth delete function that I was unaware of. The article is not listed as an AfD, but Will wants to erase it because I wrote it back in the day. Unless someone has it on their watchlist, it is doubtful that anyone is aware of what WB is up to. If anyone wants to save it, all they have to do is edit it (apparently,) and Will's plot will be foiled.
PRODs aren't exactly new - they've been around for as long as I've been on Wikipedia (more than a year and a half) as one of the three in process paths to deletion, along with AFD and CSD.

I don't know enough about the subject matter here to know whether I think it should be deleted, so I'm not touching it.
the fieryangel
QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Mon 6th October 2008, 2:57pm) *

QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 6th October 2008, 7:53am) *
This is an interesting tactic -- there seems to be a stealth delete function that I was unaware of. The article is not listed as an AfD, but Will wants to erase it because I wrote it back in the day. Unless someone has it on their watchlist, it is doubtful that anyone is aware of what WB is up to. If anyone wants to save it, all they have to do is edit it (apparently,) and Will's plot will be foiled.
PRODs aren't exactly new - they've been around for as long as I've been on Wikipedia (more than a year and a half) as one of the three in process paths to deletion, along with AFD and CSD.

I don't know enough about the subject matter here to know whether I think it should be deleted, so I'm not touching it.


Given the "PROD" reason : Term used only by LaRouche movement. Unsourced, it might help people to poke around a bit before jumping to conclusions...

There are sources for this term, although they might not like them...

The terms "Yiddish renaissance" is a pretty mainstream idea, if you ask me...
Emperor
Only 400 years after the rest of Europe. GO JEWS!

Saved here for posterity.
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 6th October 2008, 9:19am) *
Will already removed that one, calling it an "unreliable source."
the fieryangel
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 6th October 2008, 9:24pm) *

QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 6th October 2008, 9:19am) *
Will already removed that one, calling it an "unreliable source."


Well, there are other sources....and the Larouche movement material isn't the only source which contains this phrase.

It sounds like a case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, if you ask me....
everyking
I reverted Will Beback's PROD, and the following conversation ensued here (his responses) and here (my responses). To sum up, Will darkly suggested that I was proxying for a banned user, then asserted that there were no reliable sources, then (after I provided a pile of such sources from Google Books) retreated from that position and said that I should write a new article myself, while redirecting the existing article to "Yiddish literature". I objected that I wasn't sufficiently knowledgeable or interested in the subject to write an article on it, and suggested that we instead restore the article while appending some of the sources on Google Books to it, so other editors would know where to go to research and expand the article, but Will rejected that suggestion. So the article presently remain redirected to "Yiddish literature", although the topic seems to encompass more than just literature. If someone would like to take the time to produce something that meets Will Beback's standards, please do so.
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Mon 6th October 2008, 2:45pm) *

It sounds like a case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, if you ask me....
Not exactly... I doubt that Will cares about the subject matter. What is going on here is that Will has become Captain Ahab, and he can't stop editing Wikipedia even for a minute as long as he thinks there may be some vestige of my editing left at the project. Every new editor who questions his judgment becomes my sock. I'm sure he's convinced that Dan Tobias is me, because Dan made some rather astute observations about Will's conduct at ANI and other venues. Will still dreams of making Wikipedia into a showcase for Chip Berlet.

Update: Everyking decided to challenge WB, and presented him with this list of references to the Yiddish Renaissance. At this juncture, however, WB is still insisting on redirecting the article.
Meringue
Am I missing something? Why is this a LaRouche thing? I confess a limited knowledge of his ideas (indeed, I hadn't even heard of him before I joined here ph34r.gif) but that doesn't seem one of them.
Neil
I don't know anything about the topic so wouldn't particularly be able to expand it, but referencing what was in there was easy; I just spent ten minutes poking around Google Books, and restored the article complete with appropriate references. Seems like a perfectly viable little stub to me.
GlassBeadGame
I dislike wandering into discussions in which I lack a grasp of the substance matter, especially in a Web 2.0 environment where it is likely that many other participants will be equally as unqualified to discuss the matter, and likely less insightful of their weakness. Still, I have to wonder, looking at the article it appears perfectly benign. It seems well sourced, and many of the source authors, as one would expect in any article on the cultural development in a specific ethnicity, are Jewish and are part of relevant culture. What is nefarious and evil purpose that the LaRouche people, from Mr. BeBack's perspective, would make of this article?
Neil
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Wed 8th October 2008, 3:05pm) *

I dislike wandering into discussions in which I lack a grasp of the substance matter, especially in a Web 2.0 environment where it is likely that many other participants will be equally as unqualified to discuss the matter, and likely less insightful of their weakness. Still, I have to wonder, looking at the article it appears perfectly benign. It seems well sourced, and many of the source authors, as one would expect in any article on the cultural development in a specific ethnicity, are Jewish and are part of relevant culture. What is nefarious and evil purpose that the LaRouche people, from Mr. BeBack's perspective, would make of this article?


I don't know for certain, but this document from LaRouche does mention the Yiddish Renaissance a lot (see pages 54-55).
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Wed 8th October 2008, 7:05am) *

What is nefarious and evil purpose that the LaRouche people, from Mr. BeBack's perspective, would make of this article?
Mr. Beback is the poster boy for WP:POINT. Because I had a protracted battle with him some years ago, which he "won" by having my account permabanned by JoshuaZ, all my edits must be annihilated and the ground salted. WB has expressed the view on numerous occasions that every edit I made could be deconstructed and revealed as hidden LaRouche propaganda (in this case, I suppose you could argue that it's true, since I used Paul Kreingold as a source. However, on the balance, Will's claim is preposterous and asinine.) Will is very vehement on the subject that no matter how useful and informative, no source connected to LaRouche may ever be used in any Wikipedia article.
Neil
Aha - the initial article used, I believe, this as its starting point.
GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Neil @ Wed 8th October 2008, 9:05am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Wed 8th October 2008, 3:05pm) *

I dislike wandering into discussions in which I lack a grasp of the substance matter, especially in a Web 2.0 environment where it is likely that many other participants will be equally as unqualified to discuss the matter, and likely less insightful of their weakness. Still, I have to wonder, looking at the article it appears perfectly benign. It seems well sourced, and many of the source authors, as one would expect in any article on the cultural development in a specific ethnicity, are Jewish and are part of relevant culture. What is nefarious and evil purpose that the LaRouche people, from Mr. BeBack's perspective, would make of this article?


I don't know for certain, but this document from LaRouche does mention the Yiddish Renaissance a lot (see pages 54-55).



The way I read this is "Jewish people in Austria under Emperor Joseph II enjoyed a cultural renaissance especially in the area of music, as exemplified by Mendelsshon. At about the same time one Jewish fellow, Jabotinski, was an agent of a nasty czarist security service that persecuted Jews. This nasty man went on to influence a strain of Zionism."

So what does Jabontinsky have to do with the Yiddish Renaissance other than the mere fact that he was Jewish and co-habitated the same time period? I suppose that Jabontinsky's involvement with Czarist intelligence agencies and his specific activities are controversial and maybe LaRoche folks have a their own special views that others might want to be wary about. But what does any of this, on either side, have to do with the Yiddish Renaissance?
Cla68
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Wed 8th October 2008, 3:35pm) *

QUOTE(Neil @ Wed 8th October 2008, 9:05am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Wed 8th October 2008, 3:05pm) *

I dislike wandering into discussions in which I lack a grasp of the substance matter, especially in a Web 2.0 environment where it is likely that many other participants will be equally as unqualified to discuss the matter, and likely less insightful of their weakness. Still, I have to wonder, looking at the article it appears perfectly benign. It seems well sourced, and many of the source authors, as one would expect in any article on the cultural development in a specific ethnicity, are Jewish and are part of relevant culture. What is nefarious and evil purpose that the LaRouche people, from Mr. BeBack's perspective, would make of this article?


I don't know for certain, but this document from LaRouche does mention the Yiddish Renaissance a lot (see pages 54-55).



The way I read this is "Jewish people in Austria under Emperor Joseph II enjoyed a cultural renaissance especially in the area of music, as exemplified by Mendelsshon. At about the same time one Jewish fellow, Jabotinski, was an agent of a nasty czarist security service that persecuted Jews. This nasty man went on to influence a strain of Zionism."

So what does Jabontinsky have to do with the Yiddish Renaissance other than the mere fact that he was Jewish and co-habitated the same time period? I suppose that Jabontinsky's involvement with Czarist intelligence agencies and his specific activities are controversial and maybe LaRoche folks have a their own special views that others might want to be wary about. But what does any of this, on either side, have to do with the Yiddish Renaissance?


Good work guys. That article now appears to be saved. Too bad that Will didn't try to fix it himself instead just tyring to delete it. WR has helped resolve yet another problem in Wikipedia.
Piperdown
isn't "Yiddish Renaissance" a Weird Al Yankovic song? That alone demands notability!
The Joy
QUOTE(Piperdown @ Thu 9th October 2008, 7:48am) *

isn't "Yiddish Renaissance" a Weird Al Yankovic song? That alone demands notability!


I thought that was "Amish Paradise?" unsure.gif
Herschelkrustofsky
I finally figured out how to find this list of Will's POINT violations that was compiled by Tsunami Butler, shortly before she was banned by Will.
Piperdown
QUOTE(The Joy @ Thu 9th October 2008, 7:34pm) *

QUOTE(Piperdown @ Thu 9th October 2008, 7:48am) *

isn't "Yiddish Renaissance" a Weird Al Yankovic song? That alone demands notability!


I thought that was "Amish Paradise?" unsure.gif


indeed. isn't the similarity delicious? I can see the Weird Al video now....
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