Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Sisyphus
> Wikimedia Discussion > General Discussion
Peter Damian
Presumably people know the story of Sisyphus, the figure of classical mythology who was condemned to roll a heavy boulder up a steep hill, only to see it roll back down to the bottom again. This is how it is with someone who wants to restore articles to something like academic neutrality: the consensus view that would be held by academics if academics bothered to work on Wikipedia.

Some time ago I worked on the NLP and the Ayn Rand articles to restore some kind of balance. This did work; the articles were stable for a short time. But I have outside work and commitments and deadlines for writing papers that earn me real money. I can't be watching these articles all the time. And behold

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

But the other people have a full time commitment to these articles, and these are the only articles they edit. They have a vested interest, unlike me, in restoring their sense of neutrality. In the case of NLP, it is commercial practitioners. In the case of Ayn Rand, it is zealots and fanatics. The guy on the NLP article actually is not unreasonable, and knows the rules. He works by chipping away very slowly bit by bit. His latest version is a selective quote from the OED that he knows I will find difficult to challenge. The Randians are not so subtle, but they have a sheer weight of numbers, and a way of wearing down the neutral editors by their illiterate ranting that wins in the end.

Why do I care? I still care about education, and neutrality, and I hate the idea of an encyclopedia that is controlled by pressure groups of mostly insane people. But what can I do?


QUOTE
As a punishment from the gods for his trickery, Sisyphus was compelled to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he could reach the top of the hill, the rock would always roll back down again, forcing him to begin again.[2] The maddening nature of the punishment was reserved for Sisyphus due to his hubristic belief that his cleverness surpassed that of Zeus. Sisyphus took the bold step of reporting one of Zeus's sexual conquests, telling the river god Asopus of the whereabouts of his daughter Aegina. Zeus had taken her away, but regardless of the impropriety of Zeus's frequent conquests, Sisyphus overstepped his bounds by considering himself a peer of the gods who could rightfully report their indiscretions.[3] As a result, Zeus displayed his own cleverness by binding Sisyphus to an eternity of frustration. Accordingly, pointless or interminable activities are often described as Sisyphean. Sisyphus was a common subject for ancient writers and was depicted by the painter Polygnotus on the walls of the Lesche at Delphi.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus
GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:02am) *

Presumably people know the story of Sisyphus, the figure of classical mythology who was condemned to roll a heavy boulder up a steep hill, only to see it roll back down to the bottom again. This is how it is with someone who wants to restore articles to something like academic neutrality: the consensus view that would be held by academics if academics bothered to work on Wikipedia.

Some time ago I worked on the NLP and the Ayn Rand articles to restore some kind of balance. This did work; the articles were stable for a short time. But I have outside work and commitments and deadlines for writing papers that earn me real money. I can't be watching these articles all the time. And behold

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

But the other people have a full time commitment to these articles, and these are the only articles they edit. They have a vested interest, unlike me, in restoring their sense of neutrality. In the case of NLP, it is commercial practitioners. In the case of Ayn Rand, it is zealots and fanatics. The guy on the NLP article actually is not unreasonable, and knows the rules. He works by chipping away very slowly bit by bit. His latest version is a selective quote from the OED that he knows I will find difficult to challenge. The Randians are not so subtle, but they have a sheer weight of numbers, and a way of wearing down the neutral editors by their illiterate ranting that wins in the end.

Why do I care? I still care about education, and neutrality, and I hate the idea of an encyclopedia that is controlled by pressure groups of mostly insane people. But what can I do?


QUOTE
As a punishment from the gods for his trickery, Sisyphus was compelled to roll a huge rock up a steep hill, but before he could reach the top of the hill, the rock would always roll back down again, forcing him to begin again.[2] The maddening nature of the punishment was reserved for Sisyphus due to his hubristic belief that his cleverness surpassed that of Zeus. Sisyphus took the bold step of reporting one of Zeus's sexual conquests, telling the river god Asopus of the whereabouts of his daughter Aegina. Zeus had taken her away, but regardless of the impropriety of Zeus's frequent conquests, Sisyphus overstepped his bounds by considering himself a peer of the gods who could rightfully report their indiscretions.[3] As a result, Zeus displayed his own cleverness by binding Sisyphus to an eternity of frustration. Accordingly, pointless or interminable activities are often described as Sisyphean. Sisyphus was a common subject for ancient writers and was depicted by the painter Polygnotus on the walls of the Lesche at Delphi.[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus




I'm holding out for the Prometheus gig myself. Tell you secret: A child of Nerd will overthrow the Godking.
Jon Awbrey
Tagged for Web Searches under:
  • Karl Friedrich Anonymous Hieronymous Pseudonymous, Baron von Münchausen's Syndrone, ± Wiki-Proxy

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:02am) *

Presumably people know the story of Sisyphus, the figure of classical mythology who was condemned to roll a heavy boulder up a steep hill, only to see it roll back down to the bottom again. This is how it is with someone who wants to restore articles to something like academic neutrality: the consensus view that would be held by academics if academics bothered to work on Wikipedia.

Some time ago I worked on the NLP and the Ayn Rand articles to restore some kind of balance. This did work; the articles were stable for a short time. But I have outside work and commitments and deadlines for writing papers that earn me real money. I can't be watching these articles all the time. And behold

en.wikipedia.org/ … Neuro-linguistic programming … history
en.wikipedia.org/ … Ayn Rand … history

But the other people have a full time commitment to these articles, and these are the only articles they edit. They have a vested interest, unlike me, in restoring their sense of neutrality. In the case of NLP, it is commercial practitioners. In the case of Ayn Rand, it is zealots and fanatics. The guy on the NLP article actually is not unreasonable, and knows the rules. He works by chipping away very slowly bit by bit. His latest version is a selective quote from the OED that he knows I will find difficult to challenge. The Randians are not so subtle, but they have a sheer weight of numbers, and a way of wearing down the neutral editors by their illiterate ranting that wins in the end.

Why do I care? I still care about education, and neutrality, and I hate the idea of an encyclopedia that is controlled by pressure groups of mostly insane people. But what can I do?

…


Ja Ja boing.gif
Random832
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 12th February 2009, 2:54pm) *

Tagged for Web Searches under:[list]
[*]Karl Friedrich Anonymous Hieronymous Pseudonymous, Baron von Münchausen's Syndrone, ± Wiki-Proxy


You actually think anyone's going to search for that?
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Random832 @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:23am) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 12th February 2009, 2:54pm) *

Tagged for Web Searches under:
  • Karl Friedrich Anonymous Hieronymous Pseudonymous, Baron von Münchausen's Syndrone, ± Wiki-Proxy

You actually think anyone's going to search for that?


Wut!? You mean you didn't!?

Ja Ja boing.gif
gadfly
I've not read (yet) the NLP article on wikipedia, but I am reminded of a colleague's comment about it, which I agreed with on my study of the subject: "What's right isn't original, and what's original's wrong!" Like Ayn Rand, it attracts fanatical zealots who see the hand of their master (mistress?) everywhere. Groupthink run amock. In wikipedia's case, hordes of people (Mindguards) can descend on an article and use a war of attrition to push their amateurish and poorly constructed text and ideas upon us all.

I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of them argue that it is offensive to disagree with them, because the issues are "personal truths" to them: Just what are these "personal truths" apart from often being poorly examined opinions and prejudices? Given the anti-academic biases of Wales and his cronies, it would probably be amazing if anything came out of those nightmare articles that is good and can stay.

I think it can only get worse: the other day I saw an admin who in my experience is always polite get taken to Wikiquette Alerts by a young and mouthy editor just because the admin was (correctly) forthright, and not polite, about this editor fouling things up big time by edit-warring and misuse of templates. This editor should have been shown the door, but was not even told off for launching a clearly ridiculous complaint. This way leads to madness where even a firm and assertive argument (not even personally directed) is going to get person A complained about just for being correctly assertive and forthright to person B which resulted in person B experiencing hurt to their self-inflated pride and artificial self-importance.
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(gadfly @ Thu 12th February 2009, 12:42pm) *

I think it can only get worse: the other day I saw an admin who in my experience is always polite get taken to Wikiquette Alerts by a young and mouthy editor just because the admin was (correctly) forthright, and not polite, about this editor fouling things up big time by edit-warring and misuse of templates. This editor should have been shown the door, but was not even told off for launching a clearly ridiculous complaint.


That's because Jimbo's Wiki-Ponzi Scheme runs on the gas of Young And Mouthy Putzes (WP:YAMPs).

Everyone else is dispensable, if not a positive liability.

Ja Ja boing.gif
Emperor
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:02am) *

Why do I care? I still care about education, and neutrality, and I hate the idea of an encyclopedia that is controlled by pressure groups of mostly insane people. But what can I do?


Nice way of phrasing it. I'm in a similar position. It bothers me that the number one search result for World War II leads to a crappy Wikipedia article. It's even worse than the same Wikipedia article circa 2005.

It makes me feel better to publish my own version. I only get a handful of readers a month, but it's something.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.