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Moulton
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Thu 19th February 2009, 6:07am) *
I'd like to suggest that this article about the concept of "cyber civil rights" should be part of this discussion.

Here are some excerpts...

QUOTE(Cyber Civil Rights @ Boston University Law Review)
Cyber Civil Rights

Social networking sites and blogs have increasingly become breeding grounds for anonymous online groups that attack women, people of color, and members of other traditionally disadvantaged classes. These destructive groups target individuals with defamation, threats of violence, and technology-based attacks that silence victims and concomitantly destroy their privacy. Victims go offline or assume pseudonyms to prevent future attacks, impoverishing online dialogue and depriving victims of the social and economic opportunities associated with a vibrant online presence. Attackers manipulate search engines to reproduce their lies and threats for employers and clients to see, creating digital “scarlet letters” that ruin reputations.

Today’s cyber-attack groups update a history of anonymous mobs coming together to victimize and subjugate vulnerable people. The social science literature identifies conditions that magnify dangerous group behavior and those that tend to defuse it. Unfortunately, Web 2.0 technologies accelerate mob behavior.

New technologies generate economic progress by reducing the costs of socially productive activities. Unfortunately, those same technologies often reduce the costs of socially destructive activities.

Technology minimizes the costs of pro- and anti-social behavior through two opposing types of changes. Technology disaggregates. Communication advances allow people to separate their ideas from their physical presence. This is equally true for the scientist, the venture capitalist, and the criminal.

An anti-social behavior that commonly results from technological and economic progress is civil rights abuse.

The Internet raises important civil rights issues through both its aggregative and disaggregative qualities. Online, bigots can aggregate their efforts even when they have insufficient numbers in any one location to form a conventional hate group. They can disaggregate their offline identities from their online presence, escaping social opprobrium and legal liability for destructive acts.

On social networking sites, blogs, and other Web 2.0 platforms, destructive groups publish lies and doctored photographs of vulnerable individuals.

They send damaging statements about victims to employers and manipulate search engines to highlight those statements for business associates and clients to see. They flood websites with violent sexual pictures and shut down blogs with denial-of- service attacks. These assaults terrorize victims, destroy reputations, corrode privacy, and impair victims’ ability to participate in online and offline society as equals.

Some victims respond by shutting down their blogs and going offline. Others write under pseudonyms to conceal their gender, a reminder of nineteenth-century women writers George Sand and George Eliot. Victims who stop blogging or writing under their own names lose the chance to build robust online reputations that could generate online and offline career opportunities.

Let's discuss.
Kato
Some interesting statements about the libertarianism that "pervades online culture" including a mention of "extreme libertarianism".

I can't seem to copy and paste from the pdf (am I doing something wrong?) so I can't show examples.

But it was an excellent read and very pertinent.
the fieryangel
QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 19th February 2009, 7:27pm) *

Some interesting statements about the libertarianism that "pervades online culture" including a mention of "extreme libertarianism".

I can't seem to copy and paste from the pdf (am I doing something wrong?) so I can't show examples.

But it was an excellent read and very pertinent.


On pps 115-116, the paper gives a model as to how the law typically deals with new technology and issues pertaining to their use which seemed to be quite close to what I've witnessed before

First, the potential harm is recognized, but not the benefit. Secondly, a period of great permissiveness takes place after the potential benefits become apparent. Finally, as the technology becomes "better established", the law recognizes that not all litigations threatens the survival of the technology and then separates the indispensable issues needed to run the technology from those that are harmful to third parties, creating a balance of acceptable and unacceptable practices.

Given this model as it pertains to WP, there is quite a bit of recent evidence which would suggest that we are currently at the end of the second stage and preparing to enter into the third stage.
EricBarbour
QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Thu 19th February 2009, 1:02pm) *

QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 19th February 2009, 7:27pm) *

Some interesting statements about the libertarianism that "pervades online culture" including a mention of "extreme libertarianism".

Given this model as it pertains to WP, there is quite a bit of recent evidence which would suggest that we are currently at the end of the second stage and preparing to enter into the third stage.

Third stage. Heh. That will be a trick to accomplish.
The First Amendment can cover up a lot of evil.

That article has an impressive set of footnotes, but most of them seem to point to horror stories of online harassment, not to actual legal precedent--of which there is very little, even though the internet has been accessible to the general public for ~15 years.

There's so many horror stories available, I'm still amazed the whole thing hasn't already been screwed down and censored to the point of becoming a kid-safe playground. (Or worse yet...broadcast television.) It would not be easy to accomplish anyway. The internet we know was designed for reliability of communications, not for systematic censorship or centralized control of content.

Even the Chinese find ways around their "national firewall".

QUOTE
I can't seem to copy and paste from the pdf (am I doing something wrong?)

Yeah, you're using the Adobe "official" reader, aren't you?
If the PDF is flagged to prevent cut-and-paste (which is probable, as it was exported as a PDF from Word), you can't copy text from it.

Repeat after me: ADOBE SUCKS. Just that simple.

Now, if you had an open-source PDF manipulation program.....like, for example,
PDFedit......you could do anything you wanted to a PDF, regardless of security settings. You could also un-redact redacted text. wink.gif
I can also copy text from that PDF using Evince. It doesn't care about protection flags.
Viridae
This should be in meta discussion.
Somey
QUOTE(Viridae @ Thu 19th February 2009, 5:17pm) *
This should be in meta discussion.

I'm wondering if we need some sort of "Wikipedia in Academia" Media subforum now, since this sort of study is becoming more common. I'm putting the thread in General Discussion for now, but it's a legitimate question...

At the risk of derailing the thread, there are even comedy videos being made about Wikipedia in academia:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1830262

dtobias
To the point of why I'm extremely wary of any calls for restricting libertarian-style individual liberty in the name of "civil rights" protection, see this article about how a newspaper editor in India has been arrested for "hurting the religious feelings" of Muslims for re-publishing a British opinion column expressing concerns that free speech was being sacrificed to protect the sensibilities of religious minorities.
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 19th February 2009, 10:14pm) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Thu 19th February 2009, 5:17pm) *

This should be in meta discussion.


I'm wondering if we need some sort of "Wikipedia in Academia" Media subforum now, since this sort of study is becoming more common. I'm putting the thread in General Discussion for now, but it's a legitimate question …


Looks more like Politics As Religion to me.

Ja Ja boing.gif
Somey
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 19th February 2009, 9:24pm) *
Looks more like Politics As Religion to me.

How so? The author is a law professor at University of Maryland... I mean, sure, she's just an Associate Prof and there are better law schools than U-MD's, but I don't think (personally) the mere fact that it toes the political-correctness line is enough to make it dismissible, if that's what you're implying. Either way, we're going to see more of this sort of thing as negative reactions to Wikipedia increase.

I mean, this is in some ways a novel and creative approach to the problem of "anonymous cyber-mobs," though of course it's similar to the kinds of things many of us here on WR have suggested. Why not treat it as a civil rights issue? Maybe us middle-aged white males will get a bit less sympathy that way, but if we're not really the ones being attacked (as much), do we really need it?
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 19th February 2009, 10:41pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 19th February 2009, 9:24pm) *

Looks more like Politics As Religion to me.


How so? The author is a law professor at University of Maryland … I mean, sure, she's just an Associate Prof and there are better law schools than U-MD's, but I don't think (personally) the mere fact that it toes the political-correctness line is enough to make it dismissible, if that's what you're implying. Either way, we're going to see more of this sort of thing as negative reactions to Wikipedia increase.

I mean, this is in some ways a novel and creative approach to the problem of "anonymous cyber-mobs," though of course it's similar to the kinds of things many of us here on WR have suggested. Why not treat it as a civil rights issue? Maybe us middle-aged white males will get a bit less sympathy that way, but if we're not really the ones being attacked (as much), do we really need it?


Civil Rights is Politics.

Libertarianism is Religion.

We already have a Subforum for both those things, so I don't see the problem.

The fact that people keep confusing this one peculiar E-Cyclops with some kind of Glowball Panopticon is e-musing, of course, but no reason we should e-courage the confusion.

Jon Image
Moulton
Here is the concluding paragraph from the cited article...

QUOTE(Conclusion)
Conclusion

Scholars and activists began developing a cyber civil liberties agenda from the earliest days of the Internet. Although preservation of those liberties requires constant vigilance, they have accomplished much. Unfortunately, the Internet’s impact on civil rights has gone largely neglected to date. As a result, something with the potential to be a great engine of equality has all too often reflected and reinforced the offline world’s power imbalances. The brutality of online mobs is an important part of that story, but it is only a part. Scholars and activists need to devote the same attention to online threats to civil rights that they have to civil liberties. This Article aims to open that discussion.
Somey
To be honest, and as much as I hate to admit this, this paper is rather one-sided in terms of who it proposes to protect. To read it, one would think it's basically just women, black people, LGBT's, and the occasional Jewish person who's being attacked by "cyber-mobs" and need legislative/judicial intervention, and almost nobody else - though there's one extremely unfortunate mention of the Scientologists as victims too, which will cause LOTS of people to basically stop reading at that point under the assumption that the whole paper is just another part of the Massive Global Scientology Conspiracy.™ (Maybe one of us should e-mail this person and try to get her to amend that part? She doesn't look like a Scientologist, but you never know...)

Also, like Eric suggests up above, the heavy use of the Kathy Sierra (T-H-L-K-D) case as an example, while completely appropriate, tends to suggest that this paper is a reaction to specific extreme cases of cyber-bullying as opposed to a more reasoned, measured approach to the general problem. But hey, maybe that's the only way to get legislators to stand up and take notice? ermm.gif

I just think it would add some credence to the paper if she would point out that there are plenty of people on the more liberal/radical side of the political spectrum, including gays and quite a few ethnic minorities, who are just as likely to join cyber-mobs as their racist/sexist/anti-semitic opponents. They don't always do it in self-defense, either. And quite often, they do it to each other.

But I guess political correctness is what it's all about these days...
Kato
I agree to an extent. And you are right in relation to Wikipedia, where sexual diversity at least is de rigeur . But I've noticed extreme racism on comments sections of places like YouTube, and elsewhere. ED for example.

In fact, back to Wikipedia, that Obama incident was very much the norm on articles relating to black subjects. Racist vandalism is rife, and sinister.
Moulton
The Scarlet Letter

QUOTE(Cyber Civil Rights)
Attackers manipulate search engines to reproduce their lies and threats for employers and clients to see, creating digital “scarlet letters” that ruin reputations.

Of all the problematic practices that the cited article touches on, the one that seems most anachronistic, most ubiquitous, and most deeply entrenched in ill-conceived WikiCulture (and also the easiest to arrest) is the prominent use of stigmatizing "Scarlet Letter" templates on user pages.

I know that Alison and NYBrad (among others) have paid some attention to this issue, at least in selected individual cases, but I don't understand why it's not addressed at the systemic level.

In view of the Mission of WMF to bring the "Sum of All Human Knowledge" to 21st Century youth, what responsible educational purpose is served by inculcating WP admins into adopting a hoary practice that went out of style over a century ago, after Nathaniel Hawthorne first drew public attention to it with his classic novel on the subject?
SmashTheState
When Abbie Hoffman was asked by a reporter whether it was true that he supported absolute and unconditional freedom of speech, he agreed that this was the case. When he was then asked what his response was to the classic problem of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre, his response was: "FIRE! FIRE!"

I tend to side with Abbie on this. Much as I have experienced libel first-hand on Wikipedia and have been forced to waste a great deal of time assisting comrades in defending themselves from same, I believe the problem lies ultimately not with Wikipedia but with the culture which foolishly ascribes accuracy and worthiness to the Wikipedia project.

It's clear to anyone who becomes involved in Wikipedia for any length of time that while in uncontroversial topics it is fair-to-middling accurate (at least as accurate as Britannica on issues of mainstream science, for example), as soon as one gets close to religion, philosophy, politics, economics, or any other field where large numbers of people disagree with each other, that accuracy is a matter of where the randomly-thrown dart lands -- and who has more time to throw them. If this fact was known to the public, there would be no problem with libellous articles. Indeed, I let my own libellous article sit for a long time because it really had very little effect on me, and became involved out of annoyance only because the article was deemed "vanity" and non-notable AFTER some people had come along and fixed it to make it accurate.

I suppose it is partly the fault of WMF, who bruit that their project is accurate and reliable, but really the public (and especially the media) should know better. Many times I have given interviews to the corporate media and noticed that they arrived with copies of the Wikipedia articles in hand about me and the organization for which I am spokesperson. What this tells me is they're still, after all the evidence of Wikipedia's inaccuracies, using Wikipedia as a research tool. Not that this is surprising, since Google searches on virtually any topic tend to produce Wikipedia pages all over the first page like the measles, but one would hope reporters might have more sense.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a practical stop-gap measure to try to keep lies and libel out of Wikipedia, but a more long-lasting solution is to make it clear that Wikipedia is useless as a research tool for anything but Star Wars trivia and lists of Pokemons.
Kato
QUOTE(SmashTheState @ Sat 21st February 2009, 9:00pm) *

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a practical stop-gap measure to try to keep lies and libel out of Wikipedia, but a more long-lasting solution is to make it clear that Wikipedia is useless as a research tool for anything but Star Wars trivia and lists of Pokemons.

My general involvement in this game is to push for both.

With limited success to say the least.
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(SmashTheState @ Sat 21st February 2009, 4:00pm) *

I guess what I'm saying is that it's a practical stop-gap measure to try to keep lies and libel out of Wikipedia, but a more long-lasting solution is to make it clear that Wikipedia is useless as a research tool for anything but Star Wars trivia and lists of Pokemons.


That pretty much cuts to the chase.

The reason why that Happy Day will be a long time coming is that Wikipedia successfully exploits — in a viral way — a persistent flaw in the Google PageRank algorithm, a flaw that tracks back to the faulty logic of Connectionism. It's not a new thing — it's as old as the old saw of All Publicity Is Good (APIG).

Jon Image
LessHorrid vanU
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 20th February 2009, 6:56pm) *

To be honest, and as much as I hate to admit this, this paper is rather one-sided in terms of who it proposes to protect. To read it, one would think it's basically just women, black people, LGBT's, and the occasional Jewish person who's being attacked by "cyber-mobs" and need legislative/judicial intervention, and almost nobody else - though there's one extremely unfortunate mention of the Scientologists as victims too, which will cause LOTS of people to basically stop reading at that point under the assumption that the whole paper is just another part of the Massive Global Scientology Conspiracy.™ (Maybe one of us should e-mail this person and try to get her to amend that part? She doesn't look like a Scientologist, but you never know...)

...



When faced with mob mentality, everyone needs to be protected - even those who when they have the numbers use the very same tactics. That includes Scientologists, as well as Holocaust Deniers, misogynists, and every other label the "good people" have placed upon persons whose views are incompatible with the concept of open discourse. Freedom of speech and the freedom from fear for speaking out your opinions means that even the vilest of comment needs to be able to be seen. This is why liberalism as a pure form is such a difficult concept to sell, because you have to allow the enemies of it the same rights as its proponents. No other political/social movement has ever considered allowing it.
SmashTheState
QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Sat 21st February 2009, 4:49pm) *

When faced with mob mentality, everyone needs to be protected - even those who when they have the numbers use the very same tactics. That includes Scientologists, as well as Holocaust Deniers, misogynists, and every other label the "good people" have placed upon persons whose views are incompatible with the concept of open discourse. Freedom of speech and the freedom from fear for speaking out your opinions means that even the vilest of comment needs to be able to be seen. This is why liberalism as a pure form is such a difficult concept to sell, because you have to allow the enemies of it the same rights as its proponents. No other political/social movement has ever considered allowing it.


There's a difference between freedom of expression and failure to be held accountable for one's words and deeds. The way Woody Allen put it, referring to the KKK, is, "I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then go down and meet them with baseball bats."

When my comrades and I participated in an anti-war march recently, yahoos and frat goons lined the sidewalks and shouted derisive comments at the hippies and peaceniks as they passed. However, when our bloc marched by with our black flags, balaclavas, and drums, that same peanut gallery became very quiet and very polite. Why? Because they understand that we would have no moral compunction against making someone eat a healthy serving of their words along with their teeth if their criticism takes a disrespectful form. Hippies and peaceniks make good targets because for various reasons (such as moral hypocrisy and physical cowardice) they have confused passive resistance with passivity. They have failed to force their critics to take responsibility for the form their criticism takes.

On Wikipedia, I have willingly discarded my anonymity because a person should be prepared to stand behind her or his words. I am the organizer for the ciopwatch program here in Ottawa, and I almost daily confront angry, heavily-armed police nose-to-nose over their abuse of law and civil liberties. I am not afraid of their guns or their batons. I've worn handccuffs when necessary, and when the situation called for it, I went to jail too. That's not to say I take foolish risks, but I am prepared to stand behind my actions and be called upon to answer for them by the community. I never do or say anything I wouldn't cheerfully repeat in front of a judge, the media, my parents, my friends, and the (likely nonexistent) Jewish skyfairy who is watching to make sure I don't touch myself when I'm alone in the bathroom.

Talk softly -- or carry a big stick.
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 19th February 2009, 8:14pm) *

QUOTE(Viridae @ Thu 19th February 2009, 5:17pm) *
This should be in meta discussion.

I'm wondering if we need some sort of "Wikipedia in Academia" Media subforum now, since this sort of study is becoming more common. I'm putting the thread in General Discussion for now, but it's a legitimate question...

At the risk of derailing the thread, there are even comedy videos being made about Wikipedia in academia:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1830262



laugh.gif laugh.gif That was freaking brilliant. Down to the Maxwell's equations, empty classroom, and coming suicide for Britannica. It's just a few minutes and I wish it was required viewing for users, admins, beaurocrats, stewards, demi-stewards, developers, wikiwarlocks, boardmembers, jimbofluffers, and pretty much WMF-related anything.

Could somebody go to WikiUniversity and add it as a ref to the Front Page? fear.gif
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(SmashTheState @ Sat 21st February 2009, 5:19pm) *

QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Sat 21st February 2009, 4:49pm) *

When faced with mob mentality, everyone needs to be protected — even those who when they have the numbers use the very same tactics. That includes Scientologists, as well as Holocaust Deniers, misogynists, and every other label the "good people" have placed upon persons whose views are incompatible with the concept of open discourse. Freedom of speech and the freedom from fear for speaking out your opinions means that even the vilest of comment needs to be able to be seen. This is why liberalism as a pure form is such a difficult concept to sell, because you have to allow the enemies of it the same rights as its proponents. No other political/social movement has ever considered allowing it.


There's a difference between freedom of expression and failure to be held accountable for one's words and deeds. The way Woody Allen put it, referring to the KKK, is, "I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then go down and meet them with baseball bats."

When my comrades and I participated in an anti-war march recently, yahoos and frat goons lined the sidewalks and shouted derisive comments at the hippies and peaceniks as they passed. However, when our bloc marched by with our black flags, balaclavas, and drums, that same peanut gallery became very quiet and very polite. Why? Because they understand that we would have no moral compunction against making someone eat a healthy serving of their words along with their teeth if their criticism takes a disrespectful form. Hippies and peaceniks make good targets because for various reasons (such as moral hypocrisy and physical cowardice) they have confused passive resistance with passivity. They have failed to force their critics to take responsibility for the form their criticism takes.

On Wikipedia, I have willingly discarded my anonymity because a person should be prepared to stand behind her or his words. I am the organizer for the ciopwatch program here in Ottawa, and I almost daily confront angry, heavily-armed police nose-to-nose over their abuse of law and civil liberties. I am not afraid of their guns or their batons. I've worn handcuffs when necessary, and when the situation called for it, I went to jail too. That's not to say I take foolish risks, but I am prepared to stand behind my actions and be called upon to answer for them by the community. I never do or say anything I wouldn't cheerfully repeat in front of a judge, the media, my parents, my friends, and the (likely nonexistent) Jewish skyfairy who is watching to make sure I don't touch myself when I'm alone in the bathroom.

Talk softly — or carry a big stick.


The way I remember it — from back in my Rough Rider days — it was "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."

The thing that people keep missing here is the BIG DIFF between what worked in the Old Fashioned Meat Puppet Nation that most of us once inhabited, where — outside of Chicago — 1 person 1 voice was the rule, and what rules the day in the New Fangled Sock Puppet Nation, where there is no limit to the Clonal Radiation of Polymoronic Chain Reactionaries, nor any limit to the Immunity of Anonymous Pseudo-Communities.

So watch out for that …

Jon Image
Bottled_Spider
QUOTE(SmashTheState @ Sat 21st February 2009, 10:19pm) *
However, when our bloc marched by with our black flags, balaclavas, and drums, that same peanut gallery became very quiet and very polite. Why? Because they understand that we would have no moral compunction against making someone eat a healthy serving of their words along with their teeth if their criticism takes a disrespectful form.
Talk softly -- or carry a big stick.

Even a small stick would be enough, I reckon. There's nothing like a hint - the merest whiff - of "extraordinary persuasion" to concentrate the minds of peanut gallerians wonderfully.

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 21st February 2009, 10:37pm) *
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 19th February 2009, 8:14pm) *
At the risk of derailing the thread, there are even comedy videos being made about Wikipedia in academia....

laugh.gif laugh.gif That was freaking brilliant. Down to the Maxwell's equations, empty classroom, and coming suicide for Britannica. It's just a few minutes and I wish it was required viewing for users, admins, beaurocrats, stewards, demi-stewards, developers, wikiwarlocks, boardmembers, jimbofluffers, and pretty much WMF-related anything.

I was both surprised and pleased to hear the real-life person behind our and Wikipedia's Peter Damian being given a mention. I had no idea he was so old, nor did I know he was a chemist, being the first to use enzymes to ferment sugar in 1897, 1901, 1899, or deep within the confines of an anus, depending on the source. Nice one, Pete. Respect, man.
Jon Awbrey
It's been over a week and I still don't get the tag line about "cyber-sneeze" …

Is there maybe a joke about "cybersnaut" somewhere on this thread?

Jon Image
UseOnceAndDestroy
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 26th February 2009, 8:42pm) *

It's been over a week and I still don't get the tag line about "cyber-sneeze" …

Martin Luther King?



the fieryangel
QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 26th February 2009, 11:44pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 26th February 2009, 8:42pm) *

It's been over a week and I still don't get the tag line about "cyber-sneeze" …

Martin Luther King?


The point is: if they had sneezed, they would have missed it.

Well, guys, that's not the only one that you missed...
EricBarbour
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sat 21st February 2009, 1:24pm) *
The reason why that Happy Day will be a long time coming is that Wikipedia successfully exploits — in a viral way — a persistent flaw in the Google PageRank algorithm, a flaw that tracks back to the faulty logic of Connectionism.

Ah....then Brandt was right, eh? Wikipedia is a mess because of Google.
We can blame sooo much on Google. (Well, actually, yeah.)
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 26th February 2009, 5:44pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 26th February 2009, 8:42pm) *

It's been over a week and I still don't get the tag line about "cyber-sneeze" …


Martin Luther King?


Oooooh …

J☼N
the fieryangel
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Thu 26th February 2009, 11:52pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sat 21st February 2009, 1:24pm) *
The reason why that Happy Day will be a long time coming is that Wikipedia successfully exploits — in a viral way — a persistent flaw in the Google PageRank algorithm, a flaw that tracks back to the faulty logic of Connectionism.

Ah....then Brandt was right, eh? Wikipedia is a mess because of Google.
We can blame sooo much on Google. (Well, actually, yeah.)


If WP was seen as some sort of obtuse game played by a buncha geeks, wouldn't you see that as much less threatening then the sum of all human knowledge?

I know that I would, personally...
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