Some of the more hilarious rhetoric, most but not all in the pot-kettle department

WMC

• "my attention was drawn to CF"
  (we used to call it stalking)
• admits to protecting a page version for amusement value
• "A often seemed confused about the terms of the ban"
  (that would be "an indeterminate period of approximately a month" which "remains, to be reviewed in approximately another month" )

Enric Naval

• "Abd believes that he knows better than other users"
  (of course, it's Enric itself who knows best)
• "Abd says that hoaxes should not be deleted, and hoaxers tolerated"
  (Abd said that hoaxes should be blanked by any user instead of deleted by admins)
• "Abd assumes the existance of bad-faith cabals"
  (I wonder where he gets that idea from?)
• "Abd performs experiments with democracy"
  (outrageous)
• "Abd sees no problem at all with his very long posts"
  (subheading 25 out of 27 total in Enric's evidence)

Mathsci

• "Abd has made unfounded statements about William M. Connolley" / "WMC is part of some covert off-wiki conspiracy." / "Since this case began he has written that WMC has been "coddling" me."
  (Such as by blocking people who annoy Mathsci, whom WMC meets for drinks IRL)
• "Abd claims to have scientific expertise"
  (Mathsci claims to be a scientist but his expertise is in pure mathematics)
• "Abd appears to be supported by a small tag team"
  (Mathsci's being a little larger)
• "My brief involvement on Talk:Cold fusion has been minimal and constructive"
  (16 edits, including "Abd's contributions here seem to be extremely skewed." "In view of his poor namespace editing record, my advice to Abd is to attempt to edit a non-controversial article on science in order to get more experience in handling scientific sourcing in a completely neutral context. That might be a valuable eye-opener." "Abd is not the person to lead discussions here.")

Possibly also theoretical physics - there was a Seminaire Bourbaki on my work in the 1990s.

What about the paper of Eric Sheldon that started my comments?

Feel free to go on picking cherries ... bravo !

I should also add that I forgot William's birthday on April 6. If he were alive today, Anthony Blunt would probably have given me a good spanking for that.

Mathsci, do you think that William M. Connolley is an exemplary admin?

Is WMC anything like the WMDs they didn't find in Iraq?

WMC is another acronym for STD. Anyone who crosses him gets f**ked.

Not particularly: he clearly has his own style.

I think that MastCell and Alison are or were exemplary admins. They both have regrettably suffered from varying degrees of burn-out. Either of them would have got my vote for ArbCom last time round had they stood. I have no complaints at all about Casliber or Newyorkbrad, who again seem exemplary.

I also admire both Dbachmann and Slrubenstein, even though they're often diametrically opposed and both have strong personalities. No different from the real world really.

Well one wildy protesting sock - Arkady Renkov - has just had his posts removed from this ArbCom case and been indef blocked.

It'll be interesting to see who his puppetmaster is.

Any ideas who it might be Grep?

Ah, but Anthony Blunt is one of SlimVirgin's ego ideals, and I'm sure she would be happy to oblige you.

Can I bring a friend along?

The Mathsci team doing the standard good-hand bad-hand thing to discredit the opposition?

Of course you're right.

And what's more the team involves the acting clerk Hersfold.

We already made a wax doll of Grep in the early hours of the morning and are taking turns with pins. Some are more impatient than others. I'm not quite sure how accurate the effigy was - two eyes or one, we couldn't quite decide.

Heh, didn´t they tell you when you joined? This is the Mos Eisley Cantina.

One eye.

Oh, and a late welcome to the Review. You are giving Obesity competition here!

He he he.

That reminds me - I still have to go to the new Harry Potter film here in France.

Finding it in VO (i.e. English) could be a problem. Having seen Woody Allen's Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy dubbed into French I have learnt to be careful.

On the other hand I might learn the French for "git". I don't even know what it is in US English, although I could easily provide a string of examples.

Going totally off-topic here (Sorry, Somey!) ..but living in a tiny little non-English-speaking country (like I do) has its advantages: we never dub movies..with the possible exception of children-movies (read:Disney). And nobody has ever wanted to see films dubbed. What, miss a language-lesson!

Eh, but what is "git"? (They didn´t teach me that!)

Here's the WP page

Wot woz lernt at skool in blitey,

I hope I'm not permbanned for this ...

Ah.... now I feel like a twit

Don't apologize -- I tend to think of it as "streams of consciousness" conversation.

Ah, but whenever I see any of horseys post, my "streams of consciousness" goes to how to..... make a male horse to be calmer and better-behaved.....

And I don't apologize for this, at all

We all have our dreams

Perhaps there could be a rather ruder version of the "Freaks & Geeks" TV show from a few years ago, called "Twits & Gits".

What are you talking about? I am calm and well-behaved in these forums -- you should see me in the real world!

Oh, so you already are castrated? Splendid!

Ha ha...not. But that's why this Horsey likes to run with Malleus, Giano and Kohs -- stallions with balls of thunder to shake things up in the Wiki-stable.

You forgot a tiny issue (for you): those guys have this. You, running around making the same old "joke" for the 222nd time; not so. At least you have yet to show it.

So therefore; vets!! Knives!

Time for a role-change?

Well, I don't want to overshadow them, of course.

Besides, we are distracting from Abd and WMC -- balls, brains, what? I put my oats on Abd. He's a classic screwball and I gotta love him for being so much fun.

How incredibly boring, I come here looking for some real poop and nothing but Mathsci Math****ing, which, frankly, is of low interest. Nothing to inspire me to my usual walls-o-text. Wasted a few minutes. Here people complain about WMC for months or years, and when someone does something about it, like take a case to ArbComm that gets accepted, and has the -- ahem, well I do have five bio kids, which implies something -- to actually say the secret word, CABAL, in full view of the community, and this is all you can come up with? I'm ashamed. Mathsci, you have some weird inversion here. On-WP, you are dense with incivility, here, you are all pleasantries and smileys. Far out. People are more complicated than cartoons, or perhaps merely devious.

By the way, I do not consider posting of anonymous evidence and proposals at RfAr to be any kind of support. If nobody is willing to risk their "real" wikineck to say it, it's worthless, politically, and just makes the natives restless for no good cause.

Low interest? About 75 percent of this thread is of no interest whatsoever.

Maybe someone could summarize what the point of all this is? For the benefit of people who don't spend most of their time monitoring WP:ANI and the ArbCom pages? If not, I'm sorely tempted to just delete everything after the first post, so we can all start over.

Absolutely.
The problem is that a general dislike of Horsey´s sexist comments have been building up over these last weeks/months. At least in me! Just by chance it happend that this thread was were things exploded....you should probably delete it, or better: send Horsey and me to the tarpit: I am NOT finished with him yet... Grrr.

Mr. Horse seems to make a good number of comments working in reference to how attractive he finds certain female participants (and actually a couple of male ones also.) I've pondered if this was "harassment" or not, especially when the comments are repeated into a pattern. But the comments are not at all graphic and AFAIK no one on the receiving end has complained. If I received such a complaint I would argue with other mods/staff that this should be somehow formally discouraged. Otherwise I'll just sit on my concerns.

Oh, I don´t want you to ban him, I just would like an arena where I can deal with him, if you see what I mean.

Yes its highly irritating. Fortunately he hasnt noticed me yet so I shant make a formal protest.

Doesn't sound like a fair fight to me. Poor horsey would be SO outclassed.

ABD, what do you want from the RfAR? For WMC to be banned or desysopped? Or neither? I personally feel that WMC shouldn't be an admin, because he's rude, condescending, arbitrary, and pushes POV. I don't, however, at this moment have the DIFFS to back this up because I haven't put in the hours to dig them up. If you want WMC's behavior to be corrected, you're going to need to put in the hours and present the evidence. It will probably take you a few days of work, but that's how it goes. Some participants here may help you out a little by posting incidents and diffs that they remember as they watch you work, but you'll need to get the ball rolling if this is important to you.

Also, if you're going to say that there is a cabal at work, you'll need to build your case with evidence.

Ah, come on, loosen up. Come here, ya big Adversary, you deserve a Horsey kiss.



Hey Abd, nice to see you standing up for NYScholar. I think you are the only friend that she has left on Wikipedia.

Horsey is a one trick pony. He really needs to take some lessons from Obesity or bottled spider to get out of his rut, but he's probably intellectually incapable of learning from those masters.

During an ArbCom case where everything is pure invention, how refreshing to come to WR where the real truth can be spoken.

The smileys here are indeed mega-brilliant, even wicked.

Here's one to use on the workshop page when a clerk claims you're telling leetle porkies.

Naughty, naughty clerk.

Isn't the case a little more restricted than you're implying? It's not an RfC on William M. Connolley.

I couldn't have said it better myself.


I think you're selling him a bit short. What I can't figure out is whether there's one user or two inside the horse costume, though.

If there's two, one has his face in the others' bum. This would explain 50% of posts!

Speaking only for myself, of course, I would be rather upset if anything I said was considered to be sexist. I pride myself on being even-handedly obnoxious to both males and females.

Okay, finally, something to chew on.



Are those the only choices. Let me think?

Neither. Both would be rude, don't you think?

Fortunately, it's not up to me. My job is just to make clear what happened on my watch.



Unlike anyone else, right? The problem with WMC isn't exactly WMC, he's just who he is, pretty transparent. The problem is a community that isn't paying attention and isn't capable of figuring out how to pay attention because it's too distracted with whatever, and can't be bothered to read explanations of what, indeed, might be done. Guess what? It might take more discussion than trading clever sound bites.



No shit! You mean I can't just state what I know and everyone will AGF and they will check it out for themselves? Why not? Don't people fucking care? Maybe I could reconsider. Can I revert the entire RfAr back to the beginning? All those cabal editors have been reverting, why can't I have fun too?

Did you see the amazing sequence today with Short Brigade Harvester Boris? He is the best proof that, if "cabal" means "organized conspiracy," it doesn't exist or is toothless and with no discipline at all. He takes my list of editors who voted a certain way in certain discussions, and notifies them all that they have been "mentioned" at ArbComm, never mind numerous disclaimers that these are just lists and don't constitute accusations of misbehavior. The clerk supports it. So I asked, does this mean that if I put the names of the opposing voters in those discussions, I can notify them too?

It might seem even funnier if you look at the original discussions and notice the names on the other side. Two sitting arbitrators. Durova. And quite a few other interesting names.... Basically Boris set it up so that I can canvass, or the clerks are going to have some serious egg-on-face, one or the other.

And it gets funnier. I tried to add Hipocrite as a party, and notified him. WMC edit warred to remove Hipocrites' name from the case, same as Mathsci previously removed his own name. The clerks have issued several last-warning, we will block anyone who removes content from the RfAr. Until the next incident, where they then give another strict warning.

So Raul654 removes an alleged sock's evidence and proposals. The clerk "warns" Raul654, but it was a whole lot wimpier than the word "warn" implies. And, certainly, the clerk wants to make it clear, Raul should continue with "happy editing." The arbs knew that this case would be messy, but apparently, they didn't fortify the clerks....

Anyway, WMC also removed my notice to Hipocrite. Rootology reverted him. He reverted Rootology. Rootology retired. So here comes Boris, notifying everyone on the alleged cabal lists. Boris notifies Hipocrite, thus effectively undoing WMC's quite BOLD revert warring. Stay tuned: Will WMC revert Boris? Will Boris revert himself, thus undermining his argument that all these people should be notified? Will Abd continue to bury himself with claims of cabal cabal cabal, without a shred of evidence?

I wish I knew, myself. But, then again, that would be boring, wouldn't it? Really, WMC is the only admin who has had the guts to block someone for being "boring." I kid you not. We need more like him, not less.

However, he should not be allowed to block for more than 24 hours, and he should not be allowed near heavy machinery, and his testimony should be placed only a few notches above that of Raul654 as to reliability.

Back to Advice I Did Not Need



[Seriously, for a moment, real evidence is welcome, but I'd rather it be presented directly by editors. Have some guts. Raul654 only has power because hardly anyone stands up to him. And, please, be careful, try to stay focused on, I'd suggest, evidence of failure to recuse, or of preferential treatment of favored editors, and only pick clear cases and recent ones. Otherwise it will be worse than useless.]

Obviously Cla68 is not a serious student of Abd Thought, my favorite essay is WP:DGAF.



With evidence? Didn't you already say that? I'd rather build a case with treacle and bread-and-butterflies. And store useless junk in it. Look, everyone here knows that there is a cabal, except Mathsci pretends not to. Or maybe he actually is that dumb. It's all over the media. All I did was to say it.

Yeah, and if I don't prove it, I'm history, though in the MfD for WP:JURY the other day, I wrote that we should have an essay titled WP:Pull Your Pants Up. It would be about what to do when you realize you've mooned the jury. Think fast! Sorry, I ran out of bupropion, I don't know what I was thinking, there is no cabal, no siree! What a huge mistake! Here, Raul, let me clean your boots or something. Sorry sorry sorry.

Nah, I'll just let if fall where it falls. If I mooned the jury, I will pull up my pants as soon as I realize they are down. But that's about it. I have a history of pulling tricks out of the fire, but, I never know exactly how it will happen. It will or it won't. I used to say, when I'd be on stage and didn't have the foggiest idea what to do, "If I'm a fool, God, I'm your fool." And then something would happen. Usually! I don't own it.

It's called "improv" folks. WMC does the same, only he is, perhaps, a little less considerate, and not a lot more than half my age. And probably not as smart, nor as deep. But so what? It takes all kinds.

Damn d-amphetamine, here it is 2 AM and I didn't even notice.

It isn't? Damn! I must be really confused. RfC RfAr, they both begin with Rf. But, yeah, the second has four letters. You're right, Mathsci! It's not an RfC, a toothless proceeding in itself.

It's an RfAr, which is the only process on Wikipedia which has the authority to remove the privileges of an administrator, and if it is found that WMC has acted while involved, and the claim of that is central to the RfAr, one of the options that ArbComm will consider is, indeed, desysopping. He's been warned for it before. And he continued to insist on his right to act, whereas JzG actually disconnected and abstained, mostly, with only a little sock he had for lunch in the middle of his RfC, after all, dragons do need to eat occasionally, and the sock surely asked for it by openly criticizing JzG.

I'm probably not going to be suggesting desysopping, though I might change my mind, I suppose. But do realize, Mathsci, that one of the arbitrators recused, suggesting he might comment. Take a look at which one, and then look at the RfC for GoRight. It might give you some clue, something which you apparently didn't pick up at the university. That's okay, for sure, hardly anyone does.

Well, there does appear to be a content dispute going on also. The thing is, WMC is the admin who responded to it, so the effectiveness of his remedial actions I would think would be one of the areas of scrutiny. That's why I'm asking ABD what he wants. He appears to be saying that he just wants someone to intervene in the situation. ArbCom can't resolve content disputes, so unless ABD is looking for some corrective action for the other involved people, then I don't think he should have requested a case.

ABD, the reason I keep repeating myself about evidence, is because, from what I've observed, you often use reason and rhetoric as evidence. That's usually not enough. You need diffs, links, quotes, that kind of thing. I see that you say that you are aware of this. OK, fine, I won't say anymore about it.

Grandad, I never left university, you silly oid codger. Did you forget your bran flakes this morning? Mind you, the kids these days do seem much brighter than all those loopy 60s Pasadena freshmen.

Too much dope I suppose. I blame it all on Princess Margaret. And John Profumo. And Yoko Ono.

I'd stick to gardening, dominos and bowls. They all work a treat in easing down that unwanted chip on the shoulder. It looks as if it's playing up again, doesn't it?

Camomile lotion might also help.

Keep talking, asshole. Keep making snark about your critics.
Your bullshit blatherings are among the best features of WR.

Thanks for the un-encyclopedic drama.

Whilst you're about it, send Connolley and Raul over here so we can laugh at their
always-pompous snivelling.

Your directness is refreshing.

And thanks for the compliment. I shall frame it.

There's just one Horsey.

Oh, by the way, Lar...is Rock's Anne single? If so, I'll be happy to trot on over later to make her acquaintance.

WR members are usually interested in this sort of thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=303320021

Mathsci, do you think that WMC was correct in removing his adversary's comments from the case Workshop page?

My views:

- your of the use "adversary" begs too many questions - think about it a little

- I gave WMC advice on his talk page - possibly there was too much whiskey in his porridge this morning

- Abd has restored his meandering comments in one of his famous collapse boxes -far better than any sleeping pills

- Viridae's edits were dramamongering, just like Abd's attempts to manufacture incidents during the setting up of the ArbCom case

- Hersfold polices the case pages, not WMC or Viridae

- the clerk can handle the rest - the whole ArbCom case is unusually volatile which I very much regret

- if you think there's a case to be made against WMC, make it yourself

But why discuss this here Cla68? Why don't you do it on wikipedia itself?

I had been planning to answer that Mathsci had obviously decided that humour and the light touch would be more effective in this forum than aggression and insults -- giving the impression that any allegations against him are just part of one big joke, couldn't possibly be serious. OTOH he seems to have thought better of it during the course of the day.

However, a much more hilarious explanation is that this Mathsci is not the WP Mathsci at all. In fact, it makes much more sense to suggest that WR:Mathsci must be A.K.Noll, amusing herself by discrediting WP:Mathsci, while I must really be WP:Mathsci, drawing attention to WP:Mathsci's antics to show off how much I'm getting away with.

But as usual, real life is not as much fun as that. I expect it just depends on which member of the team is operating the account at any given moment.