Previously...
QUOTE(Wiki Witch of the West @ Thu 12th November 2009, 4:34am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Tue 3rd November 2009, 12:19am) *

QUOTE(Happy drinker @ Mon 2nd November 2009, 9:17pm) *

Durova meant well.


Remember, also, that Durova was participating in an invite-only, email list with a secret membership whose members were covertly engaging in sockpuppet investigations, making plans to suppress, bully, harass, or intimidate "enemy editors", "fix" Wikipedia policy, including the infamous "Badsites" proposal, and otherwise try to game Wikipedia for their own ends. I believe two of Gary Weiss' socks were members. Wikipedians were justly outraged when the existence of the list and what was going on in it were revealed. One of the darkest chapters in Wikipedia's history and I believe you must be joking around when you try to defend it.

Did you notice that when the list's existence was revealed that only a few of its members or ex-members had the integrity to own up to it? The list's creator's name was immediately removed from its Wikia page, none of the arbitrators who were members of the list, as far as I know, ever admitted that they were members in spite of repeated questioning from a lot of people, and few other admins or regular editors also ever admitted that they were members.


I respect your content contributions, Cla68, but you couldn't be more wrong about this. The name of the list was called Cyberstalking. It was created to help the people who were victims of it. And principally, dealing with that problem was exactly what it tried to do. The impetus for starting it was the ridiculous "SlimVirgin is an MI5 agent" meme that had gone all the way to the front page of Slashdot. I had joined it principally because a website was running a recent photograph of my uncle, who was in his seventies, along with his real name and a not very subtle threat to harass him in real life if I didn't quit editing Wikipedia. That was the same uncle who had survived 9/11 from a high floor.

The people who were on that list were in very stressful situations, and trying to work out solutions to those problems. The issues were difficult, and of course that type of list isn't going to be a free-for-all where anybody can join. Despite efforts to keep things clean, it did get socked and exploited. Principally by Mantanmoreland.

There's no defense for my mistake. I made the horrible error of blocking somebody for 75 minutes and then reversing myself with apologies. And then resigned afterward. But don't take potshots at that list or its aims.


QUOTE(Random832 @ Thu 12th November 2009, 5:24pm) *

QUOTE(Wiki Witch of the West @ Thu 12th November 2009, 4:34am) *
blocking somebody for 75 minutes


Why do you always insist on listing the exact length of time the block was in effect every time you mention it?


QUOTE(Random832 @ Thu 12th November 2009, 5:36pm) *

Anyway, if we're going to talk about !!, let's talk about it. Or, more specifically, the initial assumptions.

You posted it to a list about Cyberstalking. Who did you suppose him to be stalking (or harassing, or whatever else is supposedly on-topic for the list)?

"Many of them tip their hands occasionally during the preparation phase"
This was of course the most infamous of your 'evidence' items. What was "knows german" supposed to have been evidence of, anyway?

"They are team players."
followed by an example of helping Giano. Since you were talking about this from an angle of saying he's from WR, do you suppose Giano to be or to have been on what was at the time considered the "WR team"?

"They grow bold when they believe the account has ripened into the appearance of a legitimate editor. "
What was "bold" about this edit? It seemed to be pointing out simple hypocrisy between the use of some obscene terms and the condemnation of others.

"When the sock is fully ripened it heads over to disputes and takes extremist positions for no apparent reason."
Which of the comments linked constitutes an extremist position? As I recall, that sort of anti-Jimbo sentiment was reasonably mainstream at the time - maybe even more than it is now.

Some of the other items I haven't commented on, since they were an instance of correctly picking up on the later-confirmed fact that it was not a first account, and you've since acknowledged the problem in using that as evidence of wrongdoing.

Why haven't any of the arbitrators whose tacit approval of it you took as a go-ahead for the block come forward? Why haven't you named any names?


QUOTE(Wiki Witch of the West @ Thu 12th November 2009, 6:21pm) *

QUOTE(Random832 @ Thu 12th November 2009, 5:36pm) *

Anyway, if we're going to talk about !!, let's talk about it.

We aren't. That's got nothing to do with JB196 or the FBI cases.