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thekohser
The Wikipedia article Frankenstein is a wonderful example.

Over eight years of work, over 4,000 edits, and this is the description of the conclusion of the book:

QUOTE
Here, Frankenstein's narrative ends and Captain Walton reassumes the telling of the story. A few days after Frankenstein finishes his story, Walton and his crew decide to turn back and go home, since they cannot break through the ice. As Frankenstein dies, the monster appears in his room. Walton hears the monster's adamant justification for his vengeance as well as expressions of remorse before he leaves the ship and travels toward the Pole to destroy himself on his own funeral pyre so that no others will ever know of his existence. The monster hears Walton outside the room, with such curiosity Waldon makes himself known to the monster in the room. He starts to flee the room then stops he discovers Waldon is still standing there and then Waldon calls for him to stay. He now knows this is his only chance to tell his life story to the first person who is willing to listen to him. He wants to let him know that he did not come from evil that he once had goodness in his heart and love and how he wanted to participate in this world to show his "excellent qualities." To see past his hideous sight, but that never happened which led him into a lonely miserable path to seek revenge on Frankenstein. He wanted to make him feel miserable, outcasted from society and to never have love and companionship again in his life. He knows has accomplished his revenge, as he sees Frankenstein lay there dead he claims him as his victim, as his hands were the cause of his "irremediable ruin." With his revenge complete he lets Waldon know that it is time die, by his own hands and not to worry no other man will die by his own hands. He then says his last farewells to Frankenstein and Waldon, which he comments he is ready end his agonies and have his soul live in peace. He jumps out of the vessel then onto his raft and rides away into the darkness towards the north pole where his ashes will be swept into the ocean.


One wonders if a tale of playing God, without having the depth to understand the soul, and how this leads to a monstrous state of being, is awfully appropriate for Wikipedia.

Please don't tell me to "so fix it". I can't fix a broken soul.

Somey
That may be a good example of how more edits and more editors result in lower-quality articles. Most of the plot synopses for early 18th-century novels aren't anywhere near as bad as that, but they also have considerably fewer people involved in trying to write them. The more popular and well-known something is, the more attractive it is as a subject for people who don't know all that much about how to write articles for fake encyclopedias...

Besides, Hollywood is into sexy teenage vampires now. Frankenstein just doesn't have that kind of appeal for the kids.
Sarcasticidealist
I'm not sure why, but plot synopses in general are about the most consistently badly written thing on Wikipedia. I'm not even convinced that that one's atypically bad.
Milton Roe
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 9th December 2009, 11:48pm) *

The Wikipedia article Frankenstein is a wonderful example.

Over eight years of work, over 4,000 edits, and this is the description of the conclusion of the book:

QUOTE
Here, Frankenstein's narrative ends and Captain Walton reassumes the telling of the story. A few days after Frankenstein finishes his story, Walton and his crew decide to turn back and go home, since they cannot break through the ice. As Frankenstein dies, the monster appears in his room. Walton hears the monster's adamant justification for his vengeance as well as expressions of remorse before he leaves the ship and travels toward the Pole to destroy himself on his own funeral pyre so that no others will ever know of his existence. The monster hears Walton outside the room, with such curiosity Waldon makes himself known to the monster in the room. He starts to flee the room then stops he discovers Waldon is still standing there and then Waldon calls for him to stay. He now knows this is his only chance to tell his life story to the first person who is willing to listen to him. He wants to let him know that he did not come from evil that he once had goodness in his heart and love and how he wanted to participate in this world to show his "excellent qualities." To see past his hideous sight, but that never happened which led him into a lonely miserable path to seek revenge on Frankenstein. He wanted to make him feel miserable, outcasted from society and to never have love and companionship again in his life. He knows has accomplished his revenge, as he sees Frankenstein lay there dead he claims him as his victim, as his hands were the cause of his "irremediable ruin." With his revenge complete he lets Waldon know that it is time die, by his own hands and not to worry no other man will die by his own hands. He then says his last farewells to Frankenstein and Waldon, which he comments he is ready end his agonies and have his soul live in peace. He jumps out of the vessel then onto his raft and rides away into the darkness towards the north pole where his ashes will be swept into the ocean.


One wonders if a tale of playing God, without having the depth to understand the soul, and how this leads to a monstrous state of being, is awfully appropriate for Wikipedia.

Please don't tell me to "so fix it". I can't fix a broken soul.

Now, don't be mean. There's nothing there that a little punctuation and grammar help, and a paragraph break or two, wouldn't fix. Obviously English is not the author's first language. Let's see you do better in... Japanese! tongue.gif

[Edit] The summary is factual, BTW. And the novel is just about this overwrought. Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 3:18am) *


[Edit] The summary is factual, BTW. And the novel is just about this overwrought. Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....


Meh. I prefer the version with Abbott and Costello. ermm.gif
dogbiscuit
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 10th December 2009, 2:16pm) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 3:18am) *


[Edit] The summary is factual, BTW. And the novel is just about this overwrought. Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....


Meh. I prefer the version with Abbott and Costello. ermm.gif

I prefer the version pronounced Fronkensteen with the Abbie Normal brain.
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 9th December 2009, 11:58pm) *

Besides, Hollywood is into sexy teenage vampires now. Frankenstein just doesn't have that kind of appeal for the kids.
When I discovered monster flix back in the early 60s, I also discovered the bookmobile around the same time. My childish heart was aflame with indignation about how the "Frankenstein" movie completely re-wrote the book. On the other hand, the "Dracula" movie was quite faithful to its book.


QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 12:18am) *

Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....
Mary W. Shelley was a bit more than that. It was certainly gothic, but also a polemic against Benjamin Franklin and his accursed modernizing, republican activities.
Angela Kennedy
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 8:18am) *


The summary is factual, BTW. And the novel is just about this overwrought. Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....


A teenage girl who'd recently lost a baby, and whose own mother died giving birth to her I understand. Also hung out with Byron.

I think we can excuse her 'overwrought' style...
Somey
QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Thu 10th December 2009, 2:07am) *
I'm not sure why, but plot synopses in general are about the most consistently badly written thing on Wikipedia. I'm not even convinced that that one's atypically bad.

Well... personally, when it comes to classic literature, I'd say the problem is that the synopses are more like badly inconsistent, which is to say that there have never been any firm standards applied to them. Some of them go on for a dozen paragraphs or more - look at any of the Jane Austen novels, for example - while some barely reach three or four sentences. It seems to be based almost entirely on who shows up, whether or not the people who show up can actually write, and how keen they are on the idea of putting Cliff's Notes out of business. (FYI, Cliff's have already put most of their catalogue online for free, and they're trying to recapture the youth market with things like this. I guess you have to give them credit for trying...)

The real problem, as I see it, is that in the past you could only get Cliff's Notes on older novels that had already long since seen their sales peak (Ayn Rand's resurgence of popularity with conservatives aside, of course). These days, someone will publish a novel and the synopsis can appear on Wikipedia within weeks... These synopses don't just spoil the plot for potential readers, they tend to trivialize whatever message or concepts the author is trying to convey, to the point where it's soon going to be very difficult to make any sort of really profound statement via a work of fiction and have anyone actually read it.

QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 10th December 2009, 9:09am) *
When I discovered monster flix back in the early 60s, I also discovered the bookmobile around the same time.

You guys had a bookmobile? We had to walk five miles through the snow wearing nothing but deck shoes to get to the library, which only had about six books, half of which were Trixie Belden mysteries, and the others were all tractor-repair manuals. (I'm pretty sure Wikipedia has plot synopses for the tractor repair manuals, but thankfully most of the Trixie Belden novels themselves are still red links.)
NuclearWarfare
If you see Talk:Frankenstein, you will see that Awadewit and Laser Brain have made it a long term project to get that article to featured status. See, for example, the list of sources they are reading through: Talk:Frankenstein#Reading list
Somey
QUOTE(NuclearWarfare @ Thu 10th December 2009, 11:14am) *
If you see Talk:Frankenstein, you will see that Awadewit and Laser Brain have made it a long term project to get that article to featured status.

Well, again, to be fair, they really just have to revert this edit, and they'll be at least back to where they might have a chance at it.
thekohser
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 10th December 2009, 1:21pm) *

QUOTE(NuclearWarfare @ Thu 10th December 2009, 11:14am) *
If you see Talk:Frankenstein, you will see that Awadewit and Laser Brain have made it a long term project to get that article to featured status.

Well, again, to be fair, they really just have to revert this edit, and they'll be at least back to where they might have a chance at it.


Ouch... that's kind of "my bad". I honestly didn't realize that what I quoted above was a very recent edit. I swear.

Somebody had pointed me to this blog, which inspired me to watch the Branagh/De Niro free movie On Demand with my Comcast subscription, which had such an unfamiliar ending to me, I looked up what Wikipedia had to say about it.
Somey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 10th December 2009, 12:55pm) *
Ouch... that's kind of "my bad". I honestly didn't realize that what I quoted above was a very recent edit. I swear.

Ehh, don't worry about it! Probably better that I pointed it out than someone with a track record of WP-defending. unsure.gif

Having said that, for fairness's sake I generally try to give WP credit for the few things it's actually good for, and popular culture in general is one of those things (including classic literature, for the most part). But it's still a good point that plot synopses tend to be poorly written, and inconsistent from one article to the next.

Personally, I'd put a two- or three-paragraph cap on all of them - I just think it's really sad that people might decide never to read a book like Pride and Prejudice because the WP plot synopsis already gave away the ending and told them "everything they need to know."

WP'ers have discussed the issue of "spoiler warnings" before, but as we all know, their decision was basically to get rid of them. I don't believe they've ever seriously discussed the idea of limiting the lengths of plot synopses, though I know others have pointed it out as a problem.
CrazyGameOfPoker
Eh, I remember seeing some in the past. I don't think the MOS gives any lengths for novels, but I know a film synopsis is supposed to be around 500 words.

Which this exceeds three times over.
Random832
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 10th December 2009, 7:16pm) *
WP'ers have discussed the issue of "spoiler warnings" before, but as we all know, their decision was basically to get rid of them. I don't believe they've ever seriously discussed the idea of limiting the lengths of plot synopses, though I know others have pointed it out as a problem.


I think the general opinion (years ago when I paid attention to this as related to the final spoiler warning battle) was that limiting them is a good idea, but not enough to be worth making a policy rather than fighting the same fight in every single article.
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Angela Kennedy @ Thu 10th December 2009, 9:48am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 8:18am) *


The summary is factual, BTW. And the novel is just about this overwrought. Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....


A teenage girl who'd recently lost a baby, and whose own mother died giving birth to her I understand. Also hung out with Byron.

I think we can excuse her 'overwrought' style...

Sure. And of course married to Shelley, too, whose wife had drowned herself when Shelley ran off with soon-to-be-second wife Mary. Everybody was overwrought in those days, and if not quite everybody, certainly everybody in Shelley's literary circle. This are the ultimate "romantics," of course!

The WP article on Percy Shelly has juicy details I didn't even know, as well as some smile.gif not quite encyclopedic writing:

QUOTE(WP article on PB Shelley)
After the Shelleys returned to England, Fanny Imlay, Mary's half-sister and Claire's stepsister, travelled from Godwin's household in London to kill herself in Wales in early October.


Bummer of a travel reason, there.
SarekOfVulcan
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 10th December 2009, 1:21pm) *

Well, again, to be fair, they really just have to revert this edit, and they'll be at least back to where they might have a chance at it.


Done, thanks. :-)
A Horse With No Name
Who wants to bet that someone is going to add the inappropriate use of Crisco to the article? ermm.gif
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 10th December 2009, 8:09am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 12:18am) *

Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....
Mary W. Shelley was a bit more than that. It was certainly gothic, but also a polemic against Benjamin Franklin and his accursed modernizing, republican activities.

Wha....?

The method of the monster's creation isn't even mentioned in the novel. Franklin of electrical fame is known to have been interested in revival of apparently "dead" creatures, but then he was interested in everything, being a universal genius and all. And Galvanism was known. And Shelley is known to have known of Franklin, who was called "The Modern Prometheus" by Kant for his electrical experiments, which is the not very original subtitle of Shelley's novel. (These days every major scientist who releases some power source gets called the modern Promethius--- as with Oppenheimer, the system always eat his liver).

I don't remember any politics at all in the novel. It's mostly about the difficulty of creating "life" (Mary's miscarriages) with a subplot of abandonment, orphanage, and child abuse by neglect. Mary Shelley was motherless and her father was distant also.

Remember the author! The monster just wants to get married to Ms. Right ("Get me on e-Harmony" he says at one point) and figures a good match will solve all his problems. Victor won't create the bride, fearing a race of gollum-monsters (he can create life but doesn't think of leaving a snips out). The vegetarian monster likes reading Milton (good taste) but his lack of feminine companionship keeps him murderous. If he was human, later divorces and bankrupcies and child custody hearings would put all that in perspective, and perhaps he would discover wanking. But being an unnatural monster, he goes dramatically north to immolate himself. Apparently he CAN self-terminate.
Angela Kennedy
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 8:42pm) *

QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 10th December 2009, 8:09am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 12:18am) *

Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....
Mary W. Shelley was a bit more than that. It was certainly gothic, but also a polemic against Benjamin Franklin and his accursed modernizing, republican activities.

Wha....?

The method of the monster's creation isn't even mentioned in the novel. Franklin of electrical fame is known to have been interested in revival of apparently "dead" creatures, but then he was interested in everything, being a universal genius and all. And Galvanism was known. And Shelley is known to have known of Franklin, who was called "The Modern Prometheus" by Kant for his electrical experiments, which is the not very original subtitle of Shelley's novel. (These days every major scientist who releases some power source gets called the modern Promethius--- as with Oppenheimer, the system always eat his liver).

I don't remember any politics at all in the novel. It's mostly about the difficulty of creating "life" (Mary's miscarriages) with a subplot of abandonment, orphanage, and child abuse by neglect. Mary Shelley was motherless and her father was distant also.

Remember the author! The monster just wants to get married to Ms. Right ("Get me on e-Harmony" he says at one point) and figures a good match will solve all his problems. Victor won't create the bride, fearing a race of gollum-monsters (he can create life but doesn't think of leaving a snips out). The vegetarian monster likes reading Milton (good taste) but his lack of feminine companionship keeps him murderous. If he was human, later divorces and bankrupcies and child custody hearings would put all that in perspective, and perhaps he would discover wanking. But being an unnatural monster, he goes dramatically north to immolate himself. Apparently he CAN self-terminate.


Oh Milt, I really wish they'd made a film of Frankenstein with you as the screenwriter. That would be worth watching! Not like the other ones...
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Angela Kennedy @ Thu 10th December 2009, 4:00pm) *

Oh Milt, I really wish they'd made a film of Frankenstein with you as the screenwriter. That would be worth watching! Not like the other ones...


What is worth watching is the 1910 version. When it was first released, it was pulled from circulation because audiences found it too scary. It was considered lost for decades, but here it is:


Milton Roe
QUOTE(Angela Kennedy @ Thu 10th December 2009, 2:00pm) *

Oh Milt, I really wish they'd made a film of Frankenstein with you as the screenwriter. That would be worth watching! Not like the other ones...

Meh. Shelley's monster is skin over muscle with no fat, rather like a premature baby. Not green or with bolts out of the neck, but probably more fetal and revolting.

Its personality, on the other hand, is something halfway between flowerchild and Trekkie-nerd. Add some anger management and abandonment issues toward the parents.

Boy this would make for a helluva block-buster movie. Not.
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 4:14pm) *

Its personality, on the other hand, is something halfway between flowerchild and Trekkie-nerd. Add some anger management and abandonment issues toward the parents


But if he's never been blocked and has a few barnstars, A Nobody will gladly support his RfA. rolleyes.gif
Milton Roe
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 10th December 2009, 2:18pm) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 4:14pm) *

Its personality, on the other hand, is something halfway between flowerchild and Trekkie-nerd. Add some anger management and abandonment issues toward the parents


But if he's never been blocked and has a few barnstars, A Nobody will gladly support his RfA. rolleyes.gif

Yes, it goes without saying that Shelley's monster, as written, would probably make an excellent Wikipedian. Probably he would NOT have been driven to suicide, if he could have logged into there....

Ben Franklin would have been a hoot on Wikipedia. As a teen he had major battles with his older brother the printer/publisher, when he sockpuppeted some letters to the editor, under a pseudonym. Later he formed many interactive societies (as interactive as you could get at the time) but was always careful to OWN THE PRINTING PRESS when he could. Unlike Wales he took publisher responsibility, what there was of it. WP certainly would have kicked out out (he was a natural rebel and innovator and hater of authority to the end of his days), but it would have done them no good-- he'd have edited there as much as he liked anyway.

A genius in all things he tried, he was. Really. I think he's one of the remarkable personalities ever.
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 4:25pm) *

Ben Franklin would have been a hoot on Wikipedia. As a teen he had major battles with his older brother the printer/publisher, when he sockpuppeted some letters to the editor, under a pseudonym. Later he formed many interactive societies (as interactive as you could get at the time) but was always careful to OWN THE PRINTING PRESS when he could. Unlike Wales he took publisher responsibility, what there was of it. WP certainly would have kicked out out (he was a natural rebel and innovator and hater of authority to the end of his days), but it would have done them no good-- he'd have edited there as much as he liked anyway.

A genius in all things, he was. Really. I personally think he's one of the remarkable personalities ever.


I think nearly all of the major Founding Fathers would've been community banned if they were on Wikipedia. Their spirits were too rebellious and their intellects were too raucous for such an environment. Except for Jefferson -- he would never have joined in the first place, but he would've created his own encyclopedia.

Speaking of colonial era America (apologies to Mary Shelley), one of the more unusual WP articles on the subject is about Benjamin Banneker, which appears to go out of its way to debunk much of the accomplishments credited to him.
thekohser
My stars, if an interesting monster can't have an interesting hairdo, then I don't know what things are coming to.
A Horse With No Name
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 10th December 2009, 4:59pm) *

My stars, if an interesting monster can't have an interesting hairdo, then I don't know what things are coming to.


Oh, my God, I used to watch that as a kid and think: "This is just soooooooo wrong!"

For those who forgot or don't know:

tarantino
QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Thu 10th December 2009, 2:50pm) *

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 10th December 2009, 2:16pm) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 3:18am) *


[Edit] The summary is factual, BTW. And the novel is just about this overwrought. Written in gothic by a teenaged girl, you know....


Meh. I prefer the version with Abbott and Costello. ermm.gif

I prefer the version pronounced Fronkensteen with the Abbie Normal brain.


Phil Hartman's portrayal of Frankenstein's monster is my favorite.


Milton Roe
QUOTE(tarantino @ Thu 10th December 2009, 4:24pm) *



Yikes, two out of these three are gone. Only Kevin Nealon is still with us.

Hartman was great. He could do that "have to carry my balls in a wheelbarrow" voice. I think of the Simpsons' Troy McLure and Bill "I've pictured you naked" evilgrin.gif McNeal, the obnoxious radio announcer. They live on in Zapp Brannigan, originally supposed to be Hartman, and now done as a Hartman impression by Billy West.
Angela Kennedy
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 10th December 2009, 9:14pm) *

QUOTE(Angela Kennedy @ Thu 10th December 2009, 2:00pm) *

Oh Milt, I really wish they'd made a film of Frankenstein with you as the screenwriter. That would be worth watching! Not like the other ones...

Meh. Shelley's monster is skin over muscle with no fat, rather like a premature baby. Not green or with bolts out of the neck, but probably more fetal and revolting.

Its personality, on the other hand, is something halfway between flowerchild and Trekkie-nerd. Add some anger management and abandonment issues toward the parents.

Boy this would make for a helluva block-buster movie. Not.


Yes - but I'D like it - who cares about box office takings? biggrin.gif
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