> Google requests partnership with the NSA

Daniel Brandt

Washington Post, 2010-02-04, front page:

QUOTE

The world's largest Internet search company and the world's most powerful electronic surveillance organization are teaming up in the name of cybersecurity.
...
Google approached the NSA shortly after the attacks, sources said, but the deal is taking weeks to hammer out, reflecting the sensitivity of the partnership. Any agreement would mark the first time that Google has entered a formal information-sharing relationship with the NSA, sources said. In 2008, the firm stated that it had not cooperated with the NSA in its Terrorist Surveillance Program.

Milton Roe

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 4th February 2010, 11:47am)

Washington Post, 2010-02-04, front page:

QUOTE

The world's largest Internet search company and the world's most powerful electronic surveillance organization are teaming up in the name of cybersecurity.
...
Google approached the NSA shortly after the attacks, sources said, but the deal is taking weeks to hammer out, reflecting the sensitivity of the partnership. Any agreement would mark the first time that Google has entered a formal information-sharing relationship with the NSA, sources said. In 2008, the firm stated that it had not cooperated with the NSA in its Terrorist Surveillance Program.

Oh f%#@ me. And you thought the fact that Google parsed all the contents of your gmail account for advertising purposes was bad. Now they'll make a digest available to the feds. As also, one of your search activities. They couldn't do it for paper libraries, but now then can find out who on-line has been looking for information on anthrax or plutonium. Or for info on the NSA itself. Because with no public oversight, this WILL be misused.

And thank YOU, Wikipedia, for your cooperation.

Daniel Brandt

I predict that the impact of this public connection between Google and the NSA will be minimal in the U.S. But in Europe, the impact could be significant. When I say "significant," I don't mean a few days worth of headlines, but "significant" in the long term, in ways that are difficult to assess.

Consider:

1. Fifty-three percent of Google's revenues come from outside the U.S., according to Google's latest earnings report. A good chunk of this is from Europe.

2. The European Union has been much more proactive on the privacy issue than the U.S., and even shows signs of upcoming legislation to restrict Google's data-retention policies. Certain countries and communities in Europe have also objected to aspects of Google Street View on privacy grounds.

3. Europeans have been freaked out by the NSA for a long time. This goes back to the Echelon days around ten years ago. This fear of NSA intrusiveness is present at the highest levels of European society. European bankers, for example, wonder how much the NSA knows about their financial dealings.

4. A number of countries in Europe are upset with Google's book scanning. Google scanned in-copyright books from major libraries without regard to copyright status, or the language, or the location of the publisher. There's little or no "fair use" in copyright laws in Europe, which is Google's only defense for this copying. Google's position that the copying occurred in the U.S., and European law is therefore irrelevant, does not go over well in European courts (Google lost a big case in France over this recently). Now Google, with the world's biggest data network, is working with NSA, the world's biggest snooping network. While the privacy issue with Google Books was less noticed in Europe than the copyright issue, both copyright and privacy could be very important issues now for Europeans.

It's possible that Google's left hand doesn't know what Google's right hand is doing. I think some geeks at Google decided that asking NSA for help would scare the hell out of the Chinese. But they forgot to check with their PR people who know what's been happening in Europe. Moreover, the Chinese have nothing to worry about. Almost everything that consumers buy in the U.S. these days is made in China. If there's one thing you don't do in the U.S., whether you are the NSA or you are Google, is deprive U.S. consumers of their consumables.

Doc glasgow

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 4th February 2010, 8:29pm)

I predict that the impact of this public connection between Google and the NSA will be minimal in the U.S. But in Europe, the impact could be significant. When I say "significant," I don't mean a few days worth of headlines, but "significant" in the long term, in ways that are difficult to assess.

Consider:

1. Fifty-three percent of Google's revenues come from outside the U.S., according to Google's latest earnings report. A good chunk of this is from Europe.

2. The European Union has been much more proactive on the privacy issue than the U.S., and even shows signs of upcoming legislation to restrict Google's data-retention policies. Certain countries and communities in Europe have also objected to aspects of Google Street View on privacy grounds.

3. Europeans have been freaked out by the NSA for a long time. This goes back to the Echelon days around ten years ago. This fear of NSA intrusiveness is present at the highest levels of European society. European bankers, for example, wonder how much the NSA knows about their financial dealings.

4. A number of countries in Europe are upset with Google's book scanning. Google scanned in-copyright books from major libraries without regard to copyright status, or the language, or the location of the publisher. There's little or no "fair use" in copyright laws in Europe, which is Google's only defense for this copying. Google's position that the copying occurred in the U.S., and European law is therefore irrelevant, does not go over well in European courts (Google lost a big case in France over this recently). Now Google, with the world's biggest data network, is working with NSA, the world's biggest snooping network. While the privacy issue with Google Books was less noticed in Europe than the copyright issue, both copyright and privacy could be very important issues now for Europeans.

It's possible that Google's left hand doesn't know what Google's right hand is doing. I think some geeks at Google decided that asking NSA for help would scare the hell out of the Chinese. But they forgot to check with their PR people who know what's been happening in Europe. Moreover, the Chinese have nothing to worry about. Almost everything that consumers buy in the U.S. these days is made in China. If there's one thing you don't do in the U.S., whether you are the NSA or you are Google, is deprive U.S. consumers of their consumables.

Speaking as a paranoid European Google user, I've decided to switch.

Can anyone recommend a good search engine, with a decent ethical policy?

RMHED

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:45pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 4th February 2010, 8:29pm)

I predict that the impact of this public connection between Google and the NSA will be minimal in the U.S. But in Europe, the impact could be significant. When I say "significant," I don't mean a few days worth of headlines, but "significant" in the long term, in ways that are difficult to assess.

Consider:

1. Fifty-three percent of Google's revenues come from outside the U.S., according to Google's latest earnings report. A good chunk of this is from Europe.

2. The European Union has been much more proactive on the privacy issue than the U.S., and even shows signs of upcoming legislation to restrict Google's data-retention policies. Certain countries and communities in Europe have also objected to aspects of Google Street View on privacy grounds.

3. Europeans have been freaked out by the NSA for a long time. This goes back to the Echelon days around ten years ago. This fear of NSA intrusiveness is present at the highest levels of European society. European bankers, for example, wonder how much the NSA knows about their financial dealings.

4. A number of countries in Europe are upset with Google's book scanning. Google scanned in-copyright books from major libraries without regard to copyright status, or the language, or the location of the publisher. There's little or no "fair use" in copyright laws in Europe, which is Google's only defense for this copying. Google's position that the copying occurred in the U.S., and European law is therefore irrelevant, does not go over well in European courts (Google lost a big case in France over this recently). Now Google, with the world's biggest data network, is working with NSA, the world's biggest snooping network. While the privacy issue with Google Books was less noticed in Europe than the copyright issue, both copyright and privacy could be very important issues now for Europeans.

It's possible that Google's left hand doesn't know what Google's right hand is doing. I think some geeks at Google decided that asking NSA for help would scare the hell out of the Chinese. But they forgot to check with their PR people who know what's been happening in Europe. Moreover, the Chinese have nothing to worry about. Almost everything that consumers buy in the U.S. these days is made in China. If there's one thing you don't do in the U.S., whether you are the NSA or you are Google, is deprive U.S. consumers of their consumables.

Speaking as a paranoid European Google user, I've decided to switch.

Can anyone recommend a good search engine, with a decent ethical policy?

Define what you mean by "good", "decent" and "ethical".

Doc glasgow

QUOTE(RMHED @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:51pm)

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:45pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 4th February 2010, 8:29pm)

I predict that the impact of this public connection between Google and the NSA will be minimal in the U.S. But in Europe, the impact could be significant. When I say "significant," I don't mean a few days worth of headlines, but "significant" in the long term, in ways that are difficult to assess.

Consider:

1. Fifty-three percent of Google's revenues come from outside the U.S., according to Google's latest earnings report. A good chunk of this is from Europe.

2. The European Union has been much more proactive on the privacy issue than the U.S., and even shows signs of upcoming legislation to restrict Google's data-retention policies. Certain countries and communities in Europe have also objected to aspects of Google Street View on privacy grounds.

3. Europeans have been freaked out by the NSA for a long time. This goes back to the Echelon days around ten years ago. This fear of NSA intrusiveness is present at the highest levels of European society. European bankers, for example, wonder how much the NSA knows about their financial dealings.

4. A number of countries in Europe are upset with Google's book scanning. Google scanned in-copyright books from major libraries without regard to copyright status, or the language, or the location of the publisher. There's little or no "fair use" in copyright laws in Europe, which is Google's only defense for this copying. Google's position that the copying occurred in the U.S., and European law is therefore irrelevant, does not go over well in European courts (Google lost a big case in France over this recently). Now Google, with the world's biggest data network, is working with NSA, the world's biggest snooping network. While the privacy issue with Google Books was less noticed in Europe than the copyright issue, both copyright and privacy could be very important issues now for Europeans.

It's possible that Google's left hand doesn't know what Google's right hand is doing. I think some geeks at Google decided that asking NSA for help would scare the hell out of the Chinese. But they forgot to check with their PR people who know what's been happening in Europe. Moreover, the Chinese have nothing to worry about. Almost everything that consumers buy in the U.S. these days is made in China. If there's one thing you don't do in the U.S., whether you are the NSA or you are Google, is deprive U.S. consumers of their consumables.

Speaking as a paranoid European Google user, I've decided to switch.

Can anyone recommend a good search engine, with a decent ethical policy?

Define what you mean by "good", "decent" and "ethical".

A. Finding useful sites
B. Privacy respecting
C. Law abiding

Kevin

QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 5th February 2010, 7:51am)

Define what you mean by "good", "decent" and "ethical".

These, obviously:

Good (T-H-L-K-D)
Decency (T-H-L-K-D)
Ethics (T-H-L-K-D)

Or perhaps not.

Alison

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 4th February 2010, 10:47am)

Washington Post, 2010-02-04, front page:

QUOTE

The world's largest Internet search company and the world's most powerful electronic surveillance organization are teaming up in the name of cybersecurity.
...
Google approached the NSA shortly after the attacks, sources said, but the deal is taking weeks to hammer out, reflecting the sensitivity of the partnership. Any agreement would mark the first time that Google has entered a formal information-sharing relationship with the NSA, sources said. In 2008, the firm stated that it had not cooperated with the NSA in its Terrorist Surveillance Program.

I've seen more than enough now, and want out. Anyone know of a minimally-intrusive free email service that supports web and POP-based access that doesn't propagate IP addresses or backtracing headers?

And while we're at it, what about a search engine that's neither Google nor Bing, that's reasonably privacy-safe (please don't say 'scroogle'

)

tarantino

QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 5th February 2010, 1:21am)

And while we're at it, what about a search engine that's neither Google nor Bing, that's reasonably privacy-safe (please don't say 'scroogle'

)

I use google through proxies, turn off their ads and analytics with adblock, and set their cookies to all zeros with a javascript bookmark.

Of course, it would be better if they could be trusted.

anthony

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:57pm)

QUOTE(RMHED @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:51pm)

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:45pm)

Can anyone recommend a good search engine, with a decent ethical policy?

Define what you mean by "good", "decent" and "ethical".

A. Finding useful sites
B. Privacy respecting
C. Law abiding

Which laws?

Doc glasgow

QUOTE(anthony @ Fri 5th February 2010, 3:33am)

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:57pm)

QUOTE(RMHED @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:51pm)

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th February 2010, 9:45pm)

Can anyone recommend a good search engine, with a decent ethical policy?

Define what you mean by "good", "decent" and "ethical".

A. Finding useful sites
B. Privacy respecting
C. Law abiding

Which laws?

Mine.

But I'll settle for the copyright laws of the nation from where a work originated.

MZMcBride

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 4th February 2010, 2:20pm)

And thank YOU, Wikipedia, for your cooperation.

I don't get it.

Jon Awbrey

It is of course difficult to pick out the supreme irony in Wikipediocracy, but one of the supremest has got to be the fact that Wikipediots, who fantasize themselves such freedum fighters, are gradually brain-washing themselves and anyone else in their sphere of e-fluence to pass from rebelling against the Known Establishment to blithely accepting the dictates and the snooping of the Anonymous Establishment.

Jon Awbrey