Personal Rapid Transit (PRT) is a good example of how a small, but determined group of fanatics can abuse Wikipedia.
PRT is an unproven, imaginary transportation concept with a 30-year record of failure and controversy. PRT is used as a stalking horse by the highway industry and its supporters to attack government funding of transit, particularly light rail transit which has been a very successful and popular alternative to building more highways.
PRT has a small cult-like following of devotees who seem to have a lot of time and are very web-savvy and are therefore more likely to be able to learn Wikipedia's mark-up language and complicated rules. When confronted with the fact that PRT is an imaginary and unfeasible concept, the "editors" can become very abusive.
For example, the article lists PRT proposals such as Skyloop and Skyweb Express (Taxi 2000) for which there has been no news on their web site for years since they were rejected in Cincinatti and Minnesota. It's as if an article on the Titanic said the ocean liner is still afloat and carrying passengers across the Atlantic.
Since transportation professionals have little time to argue with anonymous PRT fanatics about something that doesn't exist, the PRT fanatics have the page mostly to themselves. There were several attempts by me and others to inject some reality into the article. I don't have the time anymore.
I have complained to Jim Wales and got nowhere. The guy obviously cares only that Wikipedia has truckloads of content and not whether the content is for real.
Full Version: The Personal Rapid Transit Wikipedia Article.
I have to admit, this whole PRT concept is awfully reminiscent of an old episode of "The Simpsons"...
I can sort of see why people who preach the kind of "openness" that's generally preached at Wikipedia wouldn't want to take your claims at face value. I mean, to determine if such a concept could work would mean "original research," not to mention some sort of value judgement, no matter how clear that judgement might be.
But it's also clear that the PRT people are "gaming the system" by focusing on the concept they're selling, instead of on any particular company or companies that are promoting it - except that whoever is doing this is probably the only company (or whatever) around that is promoting it. Correct? So it amounts to the same thing.
They use plenty of sock puppets too, I'd have to assume? My only advice would be, if you haven't actually given up at this point, not to do so much of that yourself - if you're discovered, you'll lose the "moral high ground," which (IMO) is practically essential in this case.
I can sort of see why people who preach the kind of "openness" that's generally preached at Wikipedia wouldn't want to take your claims at face value. I mean, to determine if such a concept could work would mean "original research," not to mention some sort of value judgement, no matter how clear that judgement might be.
But it's also clear that the PRT people are "gaming the system" by focusing on the concept they're selling, instead of on any particular company or companies that are promoting it - except that whoever is doing this is probably the only company (or whatever) around that is promoting it. Correct? So it amounts to the same thing.
They use plenty of sock puppets too, I'd have to assume? My only advice would be, if you haven't actually given up at this point, not to do so much of that yourself - if you're discovered, you'll lose the "moral high ground," which (IMO) is practically essential in this case.
QUOTE(Avidor @ Tue 8th August 2006, 1:41pm) 
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_rapid_transit]
I have complained to Jim Wales and got nowhere. The guy obviously cares only that Wikipedia has truckloads of content and not whether the content is for real.
Jimbo won't listen unless you have a signed check in hand.
The best advice that I could give you is not to get mad, but get even. Make allies and have them take a look. Make sockpuppets of your own if you have a Proxy Switcher or have a access from different areas often, particularly those that have shared IPs or dynamic IPs.
Wikipedia is just like the Wild West -- the only thing that matters is who has more guns.
QUOTE
Wikipedia is just like the Wild West...
It took me a while to figure that out. I wish I had come here first for advice... oh, well.
No thanks, I'm not going to try to change the Wikipedia PRT page... it's a Sisyphean task. I'm just posting it here since I feel the abuse of Wikipedia needs to be documented.
If the PRT page isn't wacky enough, check out the Wikipedia Unimodal (Skytran) page.Check out how much time people wasted on Skytran/Unimodal Here ... and the thing is supposed to be built with robots... no kidding!
One of PRT's biggest promoters, Dean Zimmermann is on trial for extorting bribes in Federal Court right now... We're blogging the trial here.
Here's an article I wrote about PRT.
Here's a comic I wrote about Wikipedia that I did after I quit wasting my time on Wikipedia.
Egads!!!! That shirt!!!!
No, they are a buidling a tribal system, with local warloards, elders, militias, etc....
QUOTE(EuroSceptic @ Wed 9th August 2006, 12:47am)
No, they are a buidling a tribal system, with local warloards, elders, militias, etc....
...or a white-collar cult.
This afternoon, prominent PRT promoter Dean Zimmermann was convicted of 3 counts of bribery in a federal courthouse in Minneapolis.
Will the Wikipedia PRT page include that important information?
Will the Wikipedia PRT page include that important information?
QUOTE(JohnA @ Thu 10th August 2006, 8:47pm)
QUOTE(EuroSceptic @ Wed 9th August 2006, 12:47am)
No, they are a buidling a tribal system, with local warloards, elders, militias, etc....
...or a white-collar cult.
That would result in a more top-down system that it is now....
QUOTE(Avidor @ Fri 22nd September 2006, 7:27am)
Weird....
Maybe you (or whoever that was) shouldn't have focused so heavily on the "dorky looking boat-trailer tires"...?
Seriously, though, the guy is probably hoping that his blog will get noticed by an actual news organization, so that he can cite a real news story in his continued efforts to discredit you and push the pro-PRT POV.
Or, he may just be desperate... Hard to say with these people!
UPDATE:
Wikipedia says:
BBC says:
The incessant PRT publicity barrage has been heavier than usual lately:
For over thirty years, PRT has been the "revolutionary" transportation system that would transform everything... yet it never seems to happen. Here's a more sober assesment of the PRT hype:
... ULTra will likely fail as all other attempts to create a PRT system have failed and BAA will substitute a prosaic, but more reliable bus or tram, but ULTra will very likely live on as an "innovative" transportation system in Wikipedia where it shares that distinction with other PRT "proposals" such as the Polish PRT system "MISTER":
... go to the MISTER website for this:
You can't make this stuff up... but, you can find it on Wikipedia!
Wikipedia says:
QUOTE
A public PRT installation, ULTra, is currently under construction at Heathrow Airport in London, and scheduled to open for public use in 2008.[1]
BBC says:
QUOTE
Heathrow Airport operator BAA said the guided vehicles should be up and running in 2009.
The incessant PRT publicity barrage has been heavier than usual lately:
QUOTE
New terminal to have travel pods
Passengers at Heathrow Airport's new terminal will mark a world first as they travel to the airport building in driverless personal "pods", managers revealed.
Work was getting under way on the first phase of a 2.4 mile track which will carry four-person lightweight vehicles from car park to terminal in just four minutes.
Arriving every six seconds at peak time, the world's first Personal Rapid Transit System (PRTS) will take its passengers straight to the check-in area.
The compact white vehicles are battery powered and free of emissions and the amount of electricity required to power them produces around half the carbon of a train or bus.
But unlike public transport systems passengers will not have to share the space with strangers or wait while the vehicle makes other stops.
Boarding passengers can choose their destination, which at the moment is either Terminal 5 or one of its two car parks, on a touch-screen and the vehicle will go straight there.
But passengers arriving at Terminal 5, when it opens at the end of March next year, will have to make do with more conventional forms of transport as the PRTS is not due for completion until spring 2009.
Richard Teychenne of ATS Ltd, the company that developed the system, said: "The goal is to make transport easy. It should be as easy as using an elevator."
Heathrow's managing director Mark Bullock said: "We are investing over £25 million in the PRT system. It offers a completely new form of public transport."
The "pods" will travel at a constant speed of 25mph and will be guided along the track by lasers which constantly monitor the distance from the track edges. If successful the system will be expanded to cover the entire airport.
Passengers at Heathrow Airport's new terminal will mark a world first as they travel to the airport building in driverless personal "pods", managers revealed.
Work was getting under way on the first phase of a 2.4 mile track which will carry four-person lightweight vehicles from car park to terminal in just four minutes.
Arriving every six seconds at peak time, the world's first Personal Rapid Transit System (PRTS) will take its passengers straight to the check-in area.
The compact white vehicles are battery powered and free of emissions and the amount of electricity required to power them produces around half the carbon of a train or bus.
But unlike public transport systems passengers will not have to share the space with strangers or wait while the vehicle makes other stops.
Boarding passengers can choose their destination, which at the moment is either Terminal 5 or one of its two car parks, on a touch-screen and the vehicle will go straight there.
But passengers arriving at Terminal 5, when it opens at the end of March next year, will have to make do with more conventional forms of transport as the PRTS is not due for completion until spring 2009.
Richard Teychenne of ATS Ltd, the company that developed the system, said: "The goal is to make transport easy. It should be as easy as using an elevator."
Heathrow's managing director Mark Bullock said: "We are investing over £25 million in the PRT system. It offers a completely new form of public transport."
The "pods" will travel at a constant speed of 25mph and will be guided along the track by lasers which constantly monitor the distance from the track edges. If successful the system will be expanded to cover the entire airport.
For over thirty years, PRT has been the "revolutionary" transportation system that would transform everything... yet it never seems to happen. Here's a more sober assesment of the PRT hype:
QUOTE
And if one of the pods develops a fault, you could end up climbing the terminal building, without a driver, a la Tom Cruise in Minority Report…The British, you might remember, are legendary for coming up with totally nutty ideas which have a tendency to blow up in their own face. Let’s hope this ain’t another one in that series…
... ULTra will likely fail as all other attempts to create a PRT system have failed and BAA will substitute a prosaic, but more reliable bus or tram, but ULTra will very likely live on as an "innovative" transportation system in Wikipedia where it shares that distinction with other PRT "proposals" such as the Polish PRT system "MISTER":
QUOTE
MISTER (Metropolitan Individual System of Transit on an Elevated Rail) is a project by Olgierd Mikosza, a Polish engineer who has spent life working all over the world. He invented MISTER while he was working in USA. MISTER website
... go to the MISTER website for this:
QUOTE
Ecological, 21st century, public transportation system of PRT type (Personal Rapid Transit), will significantly change for better the way in which we travel and live in cities and beyond, solving traffic congestion and stress associated with commuting. It will also revolutionize goods delivery logistics and garbage removal. Very importantly, it will reduce pollution within cities, as it won’t emit any pollutants and will be extremely energy efficient (under 2 KW needed while cruising ie. like an electric hair dryer).
You can't make this stuff up... but, you can find it on Wikipedia!
QUOTE(Avidor @ Wed 19th December 2007, 4:05pm)
UPDATE:
... ULTra will likely fail as all other attempts to create a PRT system have failed and BAA will substitute a prosaic, but more reliable bus or tram, but ULTra will very likely live on as an "innovative" transportation system in Wikipedia where it shares that distinction with other PRT "proposals" such as the Polish PRT system "MISTER":
The replacement for the Birmingham (BHX) MAGLEV system between the station/exhibition centre and airport is now a dorky little system pulled by
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