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thekohser
QUOTE(Newsfeed @ Sat 8th January 2011, 11:05pm) *
Wikipedia Comes of Age
Chronicle of Higher Education (subscription)

It seems like a lifetime ago when I would stop into a Barnes and Noble to look up a fact in one of the books in the reference section...


Per usual, the Comments are more informative than the article.
Jon Awbrey
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1. fred_bauder - January 08, 2011 at 03:48 pm

This is a good perspective and I'll forward this article to the Wikipedia mailing lists I subscribe too. External links from Wikipedia articles to peer-reviewed sources such as Grove Music are usually welcome as is use of them as references in articles.

There is one troublesome matter mentioned, however, if a person uses a Wikipedia article in their research, whether they are a high school student or an Oxford don, they should cite it; to do otherwise is plagiarism. I am not talking about copying from it, that is another issue and is, in fact, permitted by the copyright licenses Wikipedia uses provided the terms of the licenses are complied with.

Fred Bauder
secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User:Fred_Bauder


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2. jonawbrey - January 09, 2011 at 12:52 am

“There is one troublesome matter mentioned, however, if a person uses a Wikipedia article in their research, whether they are a high school student or an Oxford don, they should cite it; to do otherwise is plagiarism.”

Translation: “Do as we say, not as we do.”

Jon Awbrey
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3. thekohser - January 09, 2011 at 12:53 am

If “pre-research” means “I want to know what the average nutball thinks about this topic”, then Wikipedia is a good place to start, as is Usenet.

Fred Bauder above leaves a link, so I'll also leave a link:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/co-supreme-court/1360976.html


Jon Awbrey
I'm glad that someone still has the energy to respond in detail to that brand of recycled Mimbo Jimbo.

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4. seth_finkelstein - January 09, 2011 at 01:24 pm

I'm not an academic. But as a longtime observer and critic of Wikipedia, I'd contend that academics who support it are cutting their own throats. You make what I call the “extortion” argument — that Wikipedia is so popular that sophisticated professionals must work for it for free, donating their scarce time and energy to bail-out its failings (e.g. articles can be vandalized at any time by anyone, so must be constantly defended against this vulnerability). But you're doing this for an organization which will then strip out any credit for the unpaid effort, disrespect your expertise in the process of requiring you to constantly argue with cranks and bureaucrats, and you'll see this all turned around as an argument cut your funding. As well as having the main promoter go around asking a $50,000–$75,000 speaking fee for telling a story to businesspeople about the possibility of getting others to do the same thing. I assert there is something wrong with this picture.

As a technical note, when you talk of a “tenfold increase in Wikipedia-referred traffic” that's the sort of factoid which often gets echoed without any checking or context. Wikipedia articles are often re-used by spam websites, so it's entirely possible to have the entire traffic increase be from the activity of web crawlers and site scrapers. At the very least, there should be some burden on the claimant to investigate this, as it currently reads like a marketing pitch.

Note the links to your site might only last until someone, anyone, in the entire world, decides you have may have violated Wikipedia's many, many, article policies, and then drags you into a long, long, discussion about whether you have a “conflict of interest” and are being self-promotional.

I'll also leave a link, to a column I wrote:

“Inside, Wikipedia is more like a sweatshop than Santa's workshop”

Jon Awbrey
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It seems like a lifetime ago when I spent an entire week searching the Internet to track down the university library that would be so kind as to mail me a hard copy of a decade-old commencement address, all so that the authors for whom I was copy-editing would be qualified to certify “with copy in hand” the page number of a quotation they wanted to use. Their publisher would accept nothing less, and rightly so. I have reason to believe that comparable standards of scholarship still reign in many circles.

Looking back, the main influence of Wikipedia has been to lower the standards of journalism and scholarship in every circle where its influence prevails — all save pub-betting, of course, or any court where hard cash is king — to the point where Wikipediot Ways of “reporting” and “researching” have actually begun to seem “normal” to many who once lived by far better norms.

That is occasion for dismay, at least, among those who know what's at stake.


I tried to post the above comment on the Chronicle article, but I keep getting some kind of error message.

Later that Day —

After a few experiments, it appears that the ChronicleBot does not like mdashes?

Jon ohmy.gif
Jon Awbrey
Re: http://chronicle.com/article/Wikipedia-Comes-of-Age/125899/

There has been quite a bit more comment on this article.

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17. jonawbrey - January 10, 2011 at 02:36 pm

Yes, it's true, I could repeat all of the things that I have written about Wikipediot Culture over the past 5 years, and all of it would still be true. All that's changed is that the danger to the minds of students and to society at large is even greater today than it was 10 years ago.

Though many emphasize content issues, that is only part of the story. Far worse is the mis-education in the ways of inquiry and the warping of personal character to which even the most well-intentioned participants are eventually subjected.

Academic researchers and journalists on all sides have let us down. They do little more than recycle Wikipediot PR and blow pretty bubbles of wishful theory that are wholly divorced from hard knocks observation of what actually happens on Wikipedia Island on a day to day basis. It begins to look like it may be a decade or so before the real effects of Wikipedia Culture begin to make an impact on the dreamy bubble worlds of academics and media hacks. It won't be pretty -- let's hope it won't be too late.

Anyone who dares to have a real discussion about the realities of Wikipedia is invited to join the fray at The Wikipedia Review:

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showforum=62

Jon Awbrey
Could some nice Mod please rescue this thread from the swamp of media birthday balloons for our favorite neighborhood 10-year old?

Thanks,

Jon tongue.gif
Jon Awbrey
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20. jonawbrey - January 10, 2011 at 06:14 pm

Re: G8briel

FYI, the term “Wikipediot” is established usage for a “True Believer” in the doctrines of Wikipedism, as distinguished from a simple “Wikipedian”, who might be anyone who is now, or ever has been a Wikipedia “editor”, or even just a Wikipedia reader.

But I know how you feel. I once got upset with various Wikipedists for their pejorative use of the term “wikilawyer”. I felt it was defamatory, prejudicial, and unprofessional to disparage a whole profession based on objections to the conduct of a small minority. But I was severely chastised by these same Wikipedists, who said, “That is just the word that we use here”, and that I had no choice but to bow to local usage.

So I guess usage is as usage does …

thekohser
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21.

@G8briel ("many of the complaints that get brought up over and over have already been dealt with by the Wikipedia community")

Really?

How are the unsourced biographies of living people coming along? Last year, there were (I believe) 20,000+ of them. Now, you still have 13,000+ of them. That may be progress, but is that "dealt with"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...referenced_BLPs

How is the access to pornographic images by minors coming along? I heard that the consultant buddy that Sue Gardner hired had a whole list of recommended changes in policy, and that the Foundation was putting together a "working group" to figure out implementation. How is that coming?

How goes the effort to install a WYSIWYG editing feature, to make the wiki mark-up easier to use by non-white-male-geeks? I see they have one installed on Jimbo's for-profit site, but not on Wikipedia.

Is this how the problems are "dealt with" at Wikipedia?
Peter Damian
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Sun 9th January 2011, 8:30pm) *


thank you for reminding me of that article. Seth is spot on.
Jon Awbrey
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News Worth Discussing
Items from Wikipedia in the Media that generate more than one reply are moved here for further analysis.


Just wondering if we still have that policy …

Thanks,

Jon tongue.gif
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