*******************
From szvest at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 17:52:07 2008
From: szvest at gmail.com (Fayssal F.)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:52:07 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel conflict
Message-ID: <2a8c5680801080952v1afa4143u4a4bfed364e30906@mail.gmail.com>
I believe this case would draw much attention. Kirill and me have already
accepted the case but i am not sure about your opinions. Any ideas how to
move forward?
--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FayssalF
***************************************************************
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 17:55:44 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:55:44 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel conflict
In-Reply-To: <2a8c5680801080952v1afa4143u4a4bfed364e30906@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2a8c5680801080952v1afa4143u4a4bfed364e30906@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30801080955n5d9b16dcu2db5ef60482dcaab@mail.gmail.com>
I am waiting to vote until I see some more statements and a chance to see
how bad the problems on this set of articles are. My initial reaction is
that the case may become a war zone, but part of this committee's role is to
address these types of issues instead of leaving them for the rest of the
administrator corps or the community to deal with. New arbitrators might
want to look at the pages from last year's "Allegations of apartheid" and
"PalestineRemembered" cases to get a general sense of how contentious these
issues can be, although they probably won't tell you anything you might not
guess on your own, and some of the players are different.
Newyorkbrad
***************************************************************
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 15:57:42 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel conflict
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30801080955n5d9b16dcu2db5ef60482dcaab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2a8c5680801080952v1afa4143u4a4bfed364e30906@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30801080955n5d9b16dcu2db5ef60482dcaab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140801090757v2337eb2cs3c72e2156f4c44b8@mail.gmail.com>
It's another example of nationalist conflict cases, like eastern
Europe or the more recent Indian case. The key characteristic is that
you have an unending supply of partisans, and banning them one at a
time as individuals will only put it off.
So the question is how to define the bad behaviour such that it is
obvious to deal with, without biting the newbies. Fun!
- d.
***************************************************************
From thatcher131 at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 21:35:07 2008
From: thatcher131 at gmail.com (Thatcher131 Wikipedia)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:35:07 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Some instruction for the Palestine-Israel case
Message-ID: <14749c270801101335q64229f8bgd1ed308d8cd2bb8b@mail.gmail.com>
Some instruction to the clerks and the parties in the Palestine-Israel
case would be appreciated, especially as to scope and involvement of
individual editors. I suggested to the other clerks that we should
add this statement in an infobox on the evidence page.
Based on past cases and Arbitrator comments, it seems unlikely that
any editors will be singled out. Probably a general restriction will
be made allowing uninvolved admins to ban disruptive editors from the
pages they have edited disruptively. If you have evidence that
singles out a small number of editors as being much worse than the
rest, focus on those editors in your evidence presentation. Be
concise. A short report with obvious evidence of serious disruption
by a few editors is much more likely to be read than a long list of
minor infractions by many editors.
(We could also strictly enforce the word and diff limit, forcing
people to focus their evidence on what they see as the most important
editors or articles.)
It would help to have a public statement (or at least private
instruction) regarding the scope of the case. Do you want to hear
evidence of individual editors' misconduct? And if so, which editors?
(One named party has already objected to me privately that he was not
involved in the most recent dispute and was named for other reasons.)
Normally I tell people the Arbitrators will go wherever the legitimate
evidence takes them--the evidence page could get very long indeed.
Any suggestions or dictats here would be helpful.
Tom Thatcher
***************************************************************
From kirill.lokshin at gmail.com Thu Jan 10 22:25:14 2008
From: kirill.lokshin at gmail.com (Kirill Lokshin)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:25:14 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Some instruction for the Palestine-Israel case
In-Reply-To: <14749c270801101335q64229f8bgd1ed308d8cd2bb8b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14749c270801101335q64229f8bgd1ed308d8cd2bb8b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f797b9a0801101425g7d0aca59g2c3b13d99661bd32@mail.gmail.com>
Personally, I think the workshop will serve as an adequate indication of the
direction of the case.
Kirill
***************************************************************
From playa_os at hotmail.com Sun Jan 13 04:51:41 2008
From: playa_os at hotmail.com (playa_os at hotmail.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 06:51:41 +0200
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Arbitration emails, defense due to Number 57 testimony
Message-ID: <BAY117-DAV1BBEDE08190D00C74AD1CE9450@phx.gbl>
Hi,
In reference to Number 57's evidence (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_arbitration%2FPalestine-Israel_articles%2FEvidence&diff=183952453&oldid=183950131) I was considering on publishing the e-mails I wrote myself, in my own user space so to defend myself against this personal attack.
I wasn't sure that everyone from the Committee would find this acceptable so I've decided it might be better to first present the two afordmentioned emails to the comittee via e-mail.
--
Order of events:
First email sent - Mon, 7 Jan. 2008 - 16:54 (Israel)
Reply by Number 57 - 11:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=182857319
Second email sent - Tue, 8 Jan. 2008 - 14:36 (Israel)
Notification of second email - 12:41, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=182933152
I wrote these in good faith attempting to reconcile and calm down a rough situation. It's very disappointing to see innuendos raised at arbitration calling me "deceitful", "a liar", and "two-faced". I consider those statements to be bad faith assumptions and personal attacks.
Here is the text of the messages I wrote. It's disheartening when even an attempt to extend an olive branch gets construed so badly.
--
First Email:
Hi Number 57!
I have noticed that recently you have constantly been lashing out against my edits and assuming that I'm a bad editor doing harm on purpose. I assure you that this is not so, but it would be rather difficult to write about each point separately because as you know, I was involved in a great number of disputes. I can probably explain my overall position to you by instant messaging. Tell me if you have an IM program (MSN Messenger, AIM, ICQ or compatible), or if you'd like to meet up on IRC.
I'm sending this message because I believe you are a sensible editor involved in much more on wikipedia than the Israeli-Arab conflict, therefore more neutral than many of the other editors involved.
Thanks,
Jaakobou
Reply by Number 57 - 11:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=182857319
Second Email:
I most certainly do consider you a sensible editor (and you justified that perception by re-examining your position on Shlomo Ben-Ami) and also more neutral than many (most) of the other editors involved on the AN/I (Tiamut, PalestineRemembered, Eleland, Pedro Gonnet, Kyaa the Catlord, Armon).
However, I assume you haven't tried engaging the toughest areas to edit as I have, and it's been my experience that in some cases, taking a step back in negotiations actually helps achieve the reasonable suggestion you've made to begin with.
All I can say is that it's a shame that you not interested in re-examining your initial perspective.
p.s. I agree that I've crossed a POV line here and there (complete transcription of the Irit Linur letter on Gideon Levy), but a good number of the diffs you've assembled on the ANI can be easily explained in a less hostile environment... including the one of Shlomo Ben-Ami.
***************************************************************
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 00:06:01 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:06:01 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Arbitration emails,
defense due to Number 57 testimony
In-Reply-To: <BAY117-DAV1BBEDE08190D00C74AD1CE9450@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY117-DAV1BBEDE08190D00C74AD1CE9450@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700801131606k1be37503sc45e9359ad9ec5b2@mail.gmail.com>
It appears that he has already responded to those e-mails, hasn't he?
You need to go on the offensive; point out their violations, so they
are always scrambling to respond, not you.
***************************************************************
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 13:31:02 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:31:02 -0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Israeli-Palestinian remedies/enforcements
In-Reply-To: <3f797b9a0801142017ma77d475rc7df3f8201516680@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f797b9a0801142017ma77d475rc7df3f8201516680@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478cb59a.05ed300a.2479.5b3b@mx.google.com>
Just to say Kirill and I are looking at whether the wording we've used on
remedies/enforcements can be improved by slightly editing it. A couple or so
hours holding off on voting on these so we can tune the draft proposals
quickly if needed, without requiring everyone to re-vote, would be good
Thanks!
Paul.
***************************************************************
From user.jpgordon at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 16:28:36 2008
From: user.jpgordon at gmail.com (Josh Gordon)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:28:36 -0800
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Abstentions
Message-ID: <99c65f730801150828k37368be4gb414db5e9b50df21@mail.gmail.com>
It occurs to me that clarification might be useful for the new arbitrators
regarding the effect of abstention (mostly since I needed it when I was
new.)
Abstention on the proposed decision page is tantamount to a yes vote. It
reduces the number of active arbitrators; so, for example, in the Palestine
case, an abstention reduces the actives on that question from 12 to 11, and
hence the passing majority from 7 to 6.
--
--jpgordon ????
***************************************************************
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 20:17:09 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:17:09 +0200
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Israeli-Palestinian remedies/enforcements
In-Reply-To: <478cb59a.05ed300a.2479.5b3b@mx.google.com>
References: <3f797b9a0801142017ma77d475rc7df3f8201516680@mail.gmail.com>
<478cb59a.05ed300a.2479.5b3b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30801151217m3c799049x575a9f12d014e70@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 15, 2008 3:31 PM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to say Kirill and I are looking at whether the wording we've used on
> remedies/enforcements can be improved by slightly editing it. A couple or
> so
> hours holding off on voting on these so we can tune the draft proposals
> quickly if needed, without requiring everyone to re-vote, would be good
>
> Thanks!
>
> Paul.
The support votes I have cast in this case will stand, regardless of any
reasonable editing the proposals may undergo in the course of attaining
consensus.
Newyorkbrad
***************************************************************
From user.jpgordon at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 23:56:10 2008
From: user.jpgordon at gmail.com (Josh Gordon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:56:10 -0800
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel articles
Message-ID: <99c65f730801171556r13bf1047l947830f3eff32a73@mail.gmail.com>
Seems like this one is ready for closing; are we waiting for anything? Is
there any value to any of the stuff on the evidence page?
--
--jpgordon ????
***************************************************************
From kirill.lokshin at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 23:58:53 2008
From: kirill.lokshin at gmail.com (Kirill Lokshin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:58:53 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel articles
In-Reply-To: <99c65f730801171556r13bf1047l947830f3eff32a73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99c65f730801171556r13bf1047l947830f3eff32a73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f797b9a0801171558m764489bauc9ed1dadd2e38b9b@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 17, 2008 6:56 PM, Josh Gordon <user.jpgordon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems like this one is ready for closing; are we waiting for anything? Is
> there any value to any of the stuff on the evidence page?
The "Uninvolved administrators" enforcement point hasn't passed yet; but we
could concievably close without it.
Kirill
***************************************************************
From user.jpgordon at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 00:21:14 2008
From: user.jpgordon at gmail.com (Josh Gordon)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:21:14 -0800
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel articles
In-Reply-To: <3f797b9a0801171558m764489bauc9ed1dadd2e38b9b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99c65f730801171556r13bf1047l947830f3eff32a73@mail.gmail.com>
<3f797b9a0801171558m764489bauc9ed1dadd2e38b9b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99c65f730801171621q6e64f6ffx3e360f765cfc44f1@mail.gmail.com>
well, actually, with two abstentions on that point, it passes with 6/11.
***************************************************************
From stephen.bain at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 00:36:01 2008
From: stephen.bain at gmail.com (Stephen Bain)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:36:01 +1100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel articles
In-Reply-To: <99c65f730801171556r13bf1047l947830f3eff32a73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99c65f730801171556r13bf1047l947830f3eff32a73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f30e42de0801171636i491b07edgcc87191ca71c5cfd@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 18, 2008 10:56 AM, Josh Gordon <user.jpgordon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Seems like this one is ready for closing; are we waiting for anything? Is
> there any value to any of the stuff on the evidence page?
I didn't think this one would progress to closing before my departure
tomorrow, but since it has, I've moved to active and voted. The
majority remains 7. Everything now passes (except for second
preference alternatives) including the uninvolved admins point as
proposed.
I agree that we're unlikely to extract anything terribly useful in the
way of more specific findings from the evidence page; this seems, like
the Highways 2 case, to be very much a case of pots and kettles. What
is there is either low-level disruption or somewhat tendentious
editing, from a number of people. The general sanction will give
admins a better basis to deal with this sort of low-level stuff.
--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com
***************************************************************
From kirill.lokshin at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 02:14:34 2008
From: kirill.lokshin at gmail.com (Kirill Lokshin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:14:34 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
Message-ID: <3f797b9a0801171814r592c9b94n2cb605ffc99a4e37@mail.gmail.com>
How do we want to handle constructing the "working group" from the P/I
articles case? We've set ourselves a two-week deadline to get things off
the ground, so we can't really sit on the matter too long.
As far as finding the membership goes, would there be any objections to
leaving notes on AN, VP, and so forth once the case closes, asking editors
interested in taking part to send us an email?
Kirill
***************************************************************
From kirill.lokshin at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 02:18:41 2008
From: kirill.lokshin at gmail.com (Kirill Lokshin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:18:41 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israeli articles
In-Reply-To: <200801180215.m0I2FMjn030626@srv41.pmtpa.wmnet>
References: <200801180215.m0I2FMjn030626@srv41.pmtpa.wmnet>
Message-ID: <3f797b9a0801171818t7076c39s23d09b2e56eda31c@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 17, 2008 9:15 PM, Daniel <dbwiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Kirill,
>
> Would I be able to express my interest in this "working group"? Having
> mediated a couple of disputes for the Mediation Committee within these areas
> (one about an accused terrorist and another about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,
> amongst others which would probably fall outside the scope of the working
> group), as well as dealing with the conflict at the Great Irish Famine (now
> "The Great Hunger") article as a Committee-appointed mentor, I'm really
> interested in helping generate some ideas for resolution of these and like
> conflicts.
>
> I saw you just voted to close the case as everything passes, and just
> wanted to register this now rather than later. Hope you're having a good
> 2008.
We haven't quite decided how we'll collect the group yet, but I'll forward
your note to the rest of the Committee.
Regards,
Kirill
***************************************************************
From stephen.bain at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 06:13:34 2008
From: stephen.bain at gmail.com (Stephen Bain)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:13:34 +1100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
In-Reply-To: <3f797b9a0801171814r592c9b94n2cb605ffc99a4e37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f797b9a0801171814r592c9b94n2cb605ffc99a4e37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f30e42de0801172213r514300ddl2c3ce31fb3b6b13d@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 18, 2008 1:14 PM, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As far as finding the membership goes, would there be any objections to
> leaving notes on AN, VP, and so forth once the case closes, asking editors
> interested in taking part to send us an email?
That sounds like a good idea. It could go out with the notification of
the case closure.
--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com
***************************************************************
From sam.blacketer at googlemail.com Fri Jan 18 09:37:35 2008
From: sam.blacketer at googlemail.com (Sam Blacketer)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 09:37:35 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
In-Reply-To: <f30e42de0801172213r514300ddl2c3ce31fb3b6b13d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f797b9a0801171814r592c9b94n2cb605ffc99a4e37@mail.gmail.com>
<f30e42de0801172213r514300ddl2c3ce31fb3b6b13d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e75b49f70801180137s395df9cfpb0809c68809bc7d6@mail.gmail.com>
On 1/18/08, Stephen Bain <stephen.bain at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Jan 18, 2008 1:14 PM, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > As far as finding the membership goes, would there be any objections to
> > leaving notes on AN, VP, and so forth once the case closes, asking
> editors
> > interested in taking part to send us an email?
>
> That sounds like a good idea. It could go out with the notification of
> the case closure.
>
My thoughts:
The working group should not be very large - about six or seven would be the
ideal size. I think it should have one notable 'partisan' from the
pro-Palestine side and one from the pro-Israel side who should not be
prolific editwarriors but knowledgable about the issues, and the rest should
be good content contributors from other fields who have experience of
brokering agreement.
--
Sam Blacketer
***************************************************************
From stephen.bain at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 10:44:27 2008
From: stephen.bain at gmail.com (Stephen Bain)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:44:27 +1100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Palestine-Israel articles
In-Reply-To: <3f797b9a0801171810i339c3257jf87d18d18a883775@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99c65f730801171556r13bf1047l947830f3eff32a73@mail.gmail.com>
<f30e42de0801171636i491b07edgcc87191ca71c5cfd@mail.gmail.com>
<3f797b9a0801171810i339c3257jf87d18d18a883775@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f30e42de0801180244g27d84853v2cd95389022932c1@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 18, 2008 1:10 PM, Kirill Lokshin <kirill.lokshin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In that case, I've moved to close.
One last thing is "choice of approach" proposed finding of fact; I
think most of us agree there that it's worth saying that we're
preferring general remedies over specific sanctions here (partly
because, though there was evidence presented, nothing really stood out
as warranting explicit sanction, and partly to help admins out going
forward) but that a finding of fact is not the best way to do it.
As I suggested in my vote, I think it would be worth saying so in a
general comment accompanying the decision.
--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com
***************************************************************
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 12:13:39 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:13:39 -0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
In-Reply-To: <3f797b9a0801171814r592c9b94n2cb605ffc99a4e37@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f797b9a0801171814r592c9b94n2cb605ffc99a4e37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47909778.07eb300a.1520.ffffe796@mx.google.com>
Tentative start at:
http://arbcom.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_group
It's a bit more "formal" than usual, because it's a complex area and yet we
need/want results.......
Paul.
***************************************************************
From kirill.lokshin at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 13:56:16 2008
From: kirill.lokshin at gmail.com (Kirill Lokshin)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 08:56:16 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
In-Reply-To: <e75b49f70801180137s395df9cfpb0809c68809bc7d6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3f797b9a0801171814r592c9b94n2cb605ffc99a4e37@mail.gmail.com>
<f30e42de0801172213r514300ddl2c3ce31fb3b6b13d@mail.gmail.com>
<e75b49f70801180137s395df9cfpb0809c68809bc7d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3f797b9a0801180556k308d3775o9999878ddc250574@mail.gmail.com>
Are we more likely to run into burnout issues with a small group? We need
enough members to start with (or, alternately, a provision for adding
additional members later on) to ensure that something actually winds up
being produced.
For what it's worth, I would tend to favor a larger group, around 10-20
people.
Kirill
***************************************************************
From szvest at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 14:51:15 2008
From: szvest at gmail.com (Fayssal F.)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:51:15 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
Message-ID: <2a8c5680801180651k39ddfaa9o62b13cfd528386e4@mail.gmail.com>
We have now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wik...e_Collaboration.
The working group can be set up within that platform and give us a list
within 2 weeks. We must definitely make this project work as, according to
experience, it seems to work effectively. At least that would help admins
and arbs monitoring well the sitaution. We must emphasize on the fact that
the Collaboration project is the perfect venue. We already got SebastianHelm
there; a good asset.
FayssalF
***************************************************************
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 15:03:43 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:03:43 -0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
In-Reply-To: <2a8c5680801180651k39ddfaa9o62b13cfd528386e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2a8c5680801180651k39ddfaa9o62b13cfd528386e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4790bf55.0589300a.0551.ffff9824@mx.google.com>
Bear in mind this working group is not just about this dispute. It's
fundamentally different. Its aim is to consider generically, such disputes,
and how the community might approach them. Its job is not to reconcile any
specific, given dispute, or address the parties and issues in any specific
given dispute (although it will take note of them), but to consider the kind
of edit war generally.
I'd say we can use the project (and indeed anywhere that suitable users may
be found) to recruit, but we can't limit members, or involvement, to one
given dispute arena.
See arb-wiki and my last email too.
Paul.
***************************************************************
From szvest at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 16:23:00 2008
From: szvest at gmail.com (Fayssal F.)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:23:00 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
Message-ID: <2a8c5680801180823jf8c7691ld7f6309336732418@mail.gmail.com>
Got it. I agree.
***************************************************************
From playa_os at hotmail.com Fri Jan 18 13:06:39 2008
From: playa_os at hotmail.com (playa_os at hotmail.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:06:39 +0200
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Question regarding the arbcom
References: <001f01c854bb$cfc3eac0$6402a8c0@OFERPC>
<c52819d30801111816u47bc4005x707a28adb20149a5@mail.gmail.com>
<000c01c854fb$197dabd0$6402a8c0@OFERPC>
<c52819d30801131149i5074c8f0lf8d01c892fcded5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY117-DAV153DBF67EE67AB98AD6CE8E9420@phx.gbl>
Hi,
I've posted my evidence regarding PalestineRemembered (It is probably in the final state).
I hope it's not too long, It was difficult summerizing and I hope the volume and importance
of each issue are within reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...ered_activities
I hope it will be reviewed before the arbitration is closed.
Thank you.
Jaakobou
***************************************************************
From nishkid64 at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 01:26:49 2008
From: nishkid64 at gmail.com (Nishkid)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:26:49 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group on ethnic and cultural edit wars
Message-ID: <d39c21a50801221726l3d6678ebn84c3b4ba2f4b1e04@mail.gmail.com>
Hello,
I would like to apply for membership to working group on ethnic and cultural
edit wars.
I have been an administrator on the English Wikipedia since September 2006,
an administrator on Meta since February 2007, an administrator on Commons
and a member of the OTRS team since November 2007. I think myself to be a
user in good standing throughout all Wikimedia projects.
I will now highlight how I meet the four main criteria for membership in
this group.
1. A significant and relevant editing history suggesting "hands-on"
experience relevant to the group.
- I have interacted with a number of users (practically all, at some
point or another) from the Armenia-Azerbaijan case. On a number of
occasions, I fully protected pages on which these users were edit warring,
and I brought them to the talk page to discuss the matter. I am familiar
with the dispute between these users, and the dispute between Armenians and
Turkish editors over the Armenian Genocide. There too, have I protected
pages and encouraged the editors to reach a consensus for the content
dispute. I do not have any real experience with the Palestine-Israel
dispute, besides fully protecting pages, but I have bore witness to some of
the content disputes and edit wars on the articles. I also have hands-on
experience with India-related content disputes and the users involved in
them. In my experiences with these articles, I have enforced WP:NPOV to the
best of my abilities. I was also a minor participant in Hkelkar 2, and
thoroughly knowledgeable of the articles in question at the Dbachmann ArbCom
case.
2. A record of conduct that suggests an ability to work well and
constructively with others and be part of such a group.
- I am an administrator in good standing. I have proven myself as a
hard worker, as demonstrated through my efforts in bringing more than ten
articles to FA/GA status, and as a team player, by working well with other
editors and administrators on a number of different issues.
3. A deep care and appreciation for core wikipedia conduct and content
policies, such as NPOV. (And values such as open editing.)
- I am well aware of the various issues with NPOV on many Wikipedia
articles. I have enforced our policies on neutral point of view,
verifiability, reliable sources in a number of different articles. I am also
quite conscientious in enforcing our policies on edit warring and 3RR
violation. I have handled over 100 requests at AN/3RR and a number of other
personal requests for intervention on users who have violated WP:3RR or
WP:EDITWAR.
4. 'Drive' to see an approach found, and to "make this work".
- I hope for a future in which Wikipedia articles will not be
constantly subjected the edit wars. If selected to this group, I hope to
examine edit warring, and hopefully determine how we can achieve NPOV on all
of these articles, for the sake of improvement and accuracy on Wikipedia.
If you have any more questions, please contact me at this e-mail address.
Thanks,
Nishkid64
***************************************************************
From maxim.wiki at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 01:47:41 2008
From: maxim.wiki at gmail.com (Maxim)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:47:41 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Applying for the Working group on ethnic and cultural
edit wars
Message-ID: <cc286ec70801221747jcdf270an2a620df87c0fa554@mail.gmail.com>
I would be interested being part of this group; I've watched these editwars
and their arb cases quite a bit. I feel I can provide impartial feedback on
this issue, and I think this group is a very good idea, something that may
help solve these problems. This really opened my eyes with a dispute brewing
at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_...ders_by_country.
Issues with covering The Troubles has spilled into North American hockey,
the topic about which I've written the most. I wish to help sort this issue
within this group, and I feel I have the time to do this.
Thank you for considering my application,
--Maxim
***************************************************************
From nadezhda.durova at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 11:11:29 2008
From: nadezhda.durova at gmail.com (Durova)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 03:11:29 -0800
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group
Message-ID: <a01006d90801230311y15938ec9s3c9c1b70b0feb9ef@mail.gmail.com>
Your call for applicants to work on ethnic and cultural disputes lists broad
criteria, so I'll add my name for consideration. I've often volunteered in
dispute resolutions on difficult topics. Prior to the most recent
Israel-Palestine case, I had a role in seven previous ethnic/national
dispute arbitrations:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...undagai_editors
Topic: Australian aboriginal heritage
Involvement: attempted informal mentorship of a disputant, became a named
party in the case
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req.../Piotrus-Ghirla
Topic: Eastern European disputes (Polish/Russian)
Involvement: mediated between parties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...daliar-Venki123
Topic: Sri Lankan nobility
Involvement: responded to topic RFC, recommended arbitration, submitted
evidence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...angsta-Ideogram
Topic: China/Taiwan
Involvement: abortive attempt to mentor Certified.Gangsta. Intervened at
community ban discussion when I suspected canvassing, initiated arbitration
request
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...n/E104421-Tajik
Topic: Central Asian ethnic issues
Involvement: mediator; case went on hold per one party's request, terminated
when sockpuppetry got confirmed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...tration/Piotrus
Topic: Eastern European disputes
Involvement: sort of a follow-up on the suspended Piotrus-Ghirla case,
commented on talk pages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...stineRemembered
Topic: Israeli-Palestinian
Involvement: submitted evidence about the community ban discussion that
preceded the case
Currently I'm a member of the Israel-Palestine collaboration wikiproject and
led the improvement drive that brought the "Palestinian costumes" article to
GAC. For what it's worth, I've also revived the Textile Arts wikiproject
from near-demise: it had dwindled to just two people while I was busy
elsewhere. Now it's back to six active members with a new newsletter and a
good collaborative environment.
I've never been a partisan on an ethnic or nationalist dispute. In the
interests of full disclosure, I am a United States citizen who has traveled
to seventeen countries in North America, Mesoamerica, Europe, the Caribbean,
and Asia. I speak fluent German (although somewhat rusty) and know basic
Spanish and French. Despite my username, I'm not the slightest bit
Russian.
After this much experience I have no illusions about how difficult it is to
resolve these disputes. Basically I hope to collect information on
strategies that have succeeded, with an eye toward scalability and
replicating the successes elsewhere. The Sri Lankan reconciliation project
has seen some good results (and I endorse Sebastian for this panel if he
chooses to apply). I come to the table with an open mind and a longstanding
commitment to addressing this type of problem. If the Committee chooses,
I'll be glad to continue that effort in the new group.
-Durova
***************************************************************
From moreschiwikiman at hotmail.co.uk Wed Jan 23 12:13:27 2008
From: moreschiwikiman at hotmail.co.uk (Christiano Moreschi)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:13:27 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group for nationalist conflict
Message-ID: <BAY103-W1817872D383F13F66703FE83F0@phx.gbl>
I would like - very much - to be a part of this working group. I've got a long a reasonably successful record of handling nationalist disputes (Armenia-Azerbaijan, Armenian-Turk, Greek-Turk, Indian nationalism, Macedonia, Falun Gong, now Palestine-Israel). I'm one of very administrators to have put such time and effort into resolving this intractable problem, and one of fewer who have given thought as to how to do so (User:Moreschi/The Plague): in addition, I've already spent a good few hours thinking up useful recommendations for the working group. As far as contemporary and historical geopolitical knowledge is concerned, I'm reasonably sound.
You all know who I am, my record speaks for itself. No need for a lengthy witter. It's a superb idea, this working group, and a great chance for Wikipedia - I intend to make sure it doesn't get messed up, as do most good ideas on the wiki.
Yours,
Moreschi
_________________________________________________________________
Free games, great prizes - get gaming at Gamesbox.
http://www.searchgamesbox.com
***************************************************************
From saidkassem at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 16:42:25 2008
From: saidkassem at gmail.com (Said Hamideh)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:42:25 -0600
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Application to join arbitration committee
Message-ID: <34b853b80801230842n170b7dadwa5f529aac8f6d12b@mail.gmail.com>
To whom it may concern,
My name is Said Kassem Hamideh. I am a Master's degree student in Mass
Communication who is writing a Master's thesis on politically volatile
knowledge in Wikipedia (http://dialogicality.blogspot.com). In the process
of writing I have silently been combing through every edit and deliberation
behind the "Zionist Terrorism" article (now titled "Zionist Political
Violence") from its earliest available version (circa 2005) accessible
through the history pages. Thus I am familiar with the longstanding
participation and behavior of users such as "Guymontag" and "Jayjg" even if
they may have no idea who I am.
Aside from my Wikipedia research, I was active in 2007 as a
facilitator/conflict mediator for various dialogue initiatives attended by
Jewish and Arab members of communities in Manhattan and Brooklyn (<redacted>). In the online world, I
am currently a facilitator for the NGO, Soliya, which engages college
students from the West and the Muslim/Arab World in conversation, study and
collaborative learning projects (CNN featured it, available at
YouTube<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKEjT4t-e-Q&eurl=http://yodatwopointoh.blogspot.com/2007/12/soliya-on-cnn.html>).
My experience in conflict resolution, however, does not equal the time I've
spent thinking about Wikipedia's NPOV policy and its effects and limitations
managing the ideological antagonists that collide in the spaces Wikipedia
provides. Staunch worldviews and ideologies loom as large as ever and
Wikipedia, for once, may not have an easy answer. As a member of the
arbitration committee I would urge us as a committee to think about the
desired outcomes. By taking on the world's greatest ideological fissures,
Wikipedia is pushing the envelope as an encyclopedia and necessarily
produces original understandings of knowledge (yes, "original research")
simply by allowing for an encounter between unprecedented numbers of diverse
contituents.
Articles may need to read as more "self aware" pieces of literature that
"understand" the fact that any truth is being co-constructed rather than
conveyed from a pure source.
As a member of the committee I would immediately propose that we look at how
"objective representation of all significant views" is in itself an
insufficiently written formulation for handling the representation of
longstanding ethnic conflicts. How, for one, are a multiplicity of views to
co-exist with each other in a "neutral" seeming way? Who gets to decide the
proportion of view A-to-view B? If the answer is to fork away all the
disputes related to the difficult task of structuring content, then we will
never have resolved anything.
I already believe that I have something immediately to contribute to the
work group since I take contention with the fact that we must arbitrate *for
* editors connected to particular ethnic conflict, when rather, just as much
arbration energy could be directed towards differing formulations of a new,
modified NPOV policy.
Sincerely,
Said Kassem Hamideh
***************************************************************
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Wed Jan 23 21:12:00 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:12:00 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group for nationalist conflict
Message-ID: <20080123211059.HMOT29112.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Christiano Moreschi wrote
> You all know who I am, my record speaks for itself. No need for a lengthy witter. It's a superb idea, this working group, and a great chance for Wikipedia - I intend to make sure it doesn't get messed up, as do most good ideas on the wiki.
His record does speak for itself. I would say he shouldn't be let anywhere near it.
Charles
***************************************************************
From sydney.poore at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 21:22:15 2008
From: sydney.poore at gmail.com (FloNight)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:22:15 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group for nationalist conflict
In-Reply-To: <20080123211059.HMOT29112.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
References: <20080123211059.HMOT29112.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <16032ea0801231322h3b8a061dp488f7ce07b296933@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 23, 2008 4:12 PM, <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Christiano Moreschi wrote
>
> > You all know who I am, my record speaks for itself. No need for a lengthy witter. It's a superb idea, this working group, and a great chance for Wikipedia - I intend to make sure it doesn't get messed up, as do most good ideas on the wiki.
>
> His record does speak for itself. I would say he shouldn't be let anywhere near it.
>
> Charles
I've thought of Moreschi as part of the problem.
Sydney
***************************************************************
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 22:39:42 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:39:42 -0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group - discussions
Message-ID: <4797c29f.0616300a.44a5.ffffb7d6@mx.google.com>
As applications come in, I'm cleaning them up and reposting to:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/arbc...i/Working_group
for discussion.
Thanks,
Paul.
***************************************************************
From jay.hank at yahoo.com Wed Jan 23 22:44:08 2008
From: jay.hank at yahoo.com (Jay.Hank@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:44:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Application for Working Group on Ethnic and Cultural
Edit Wars
Message-ID: <46146.55303.qm@web52903.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
To the Arbitration Committee:
I (User:JayHenry) would like to be considered as a participant to help evaluate the unique challenges presented by the real-world national, cultural and ethnic disputes that spill over onto Wikipedia.
My editing revolves primarily around our content improvement processes. I have been the primary editor of five -- hopefully to be six (Ryan White) by the end of the application deadline -- Featured Articles, as well as three dozen Did you know entries. I have been a secondary, tertiary or reviewing editor on dozens more.
Of this work, I am particularly proud of having earned a Featured star for sitting UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon (one of the only FAs in International Relations topics) and keeping the inevitable neutrality disputes, that accompany almost any UN and Korea-related articles, at bay.
I recognize that I'm not one of the usual suspects for a role such as this. I have declined offers to be nominated as an admin, because I have not believed it would assist the work that I do (and I sincerely hope that the work of editors such as myself is valued by the committee, though I privately confess to doubts). I also generally avoid our mediation processes as well as AN and ANI. I believe the inability of these fora to resolve these conflicts is now self-evident. This application is not an attempt to bolster my Wiki career; I'm applying only because I genuinely believe I can help and that it is essential for a working group to include a relative outside voice such as my own.
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, written by a community. These edit wars are both an encyclopedia (editorial) problem and a community (behavioral) problem. I believe that part of the failure in addressing these problems in the past has been to look almost exclusively at the behavioral aspect. I think I am highly-qualified to provide useful insight on both aspects. The long-term stability of these areas of the Wiki -- indeed the long-term viability of the whole of our project -- depends upon the content attaining high-level quality. It is trivially easy for edit warriors to destabilize an uncited article. It is more difficult (certainly not impossible) to challenge content supported by quality research.
As such I disclose in strict confidence to the committee (and fully aware that such things appropriately aren't given much weight on Wiki) that my academic background is <being redacted>.
If selected, the committee will find that I am analytical, patient, independent- but open-minded. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask. Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Jay Henry
***************************************************************
From dgerard at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:26:25 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:26:25 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
Message-ID: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
Draft Chris Owen if you can - [[User:ChrisO]]. He's been sensible in
the face of lots of this sort of thing.
- d.
***************************************************************
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:34:11 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:34:11 -0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
Added - thanks!
***************************************************************
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:37:26 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:37:26 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
Not a good idea. He's a fairly heavily involved partisan in the
Israeli-Palestinian articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...nce#User:ChrisO
***************************************************************
From blnguyen2230 at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:41:18 2008
From: blnguyen2230 at gmail.com (Blnguyen)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:11:18 +1030
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Application for Working Group on Ethnic and Cultural
Edit Wars
In-Reply-To: <46146.55303.qm@web52903.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <46146.55303.qm@web52903.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87ffb69e0801231541n2430dfc5qa6f02b6c95289744@mail.gmail.com>
I endorse Jay Hank's application
***************************************************************
From dgerard at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:42:34 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:42:34 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140801231542q7402ad49nd24b2195e8bda948@mail.gmail.com>
On 23/01/2008, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Not a good idea. He's a fairly heavily involved partisan in the
> Israeli-Palestinian articles:
He's as level-headed as you in these contentious areas, and has a good
track record of knowing his shit. You've given a link to a frothing
submission, but not to anything substantial?
- d.
***************************************************************
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:49:46 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:49:46 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140801231542q7402ad49nd24b2195e8bda948@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231542q7402ad49nd24b2195e8bda948@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700801231549k13d5c8a5l5f63e1a97790f344@mail.gmail.com>
It was hardly "frothing", and in any event, shows Chris's heavy
involvement in the area. He's a known partisan on these issues.
***************************************************************
From dgerard at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:55:45 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:55:45 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700801231549k13d5c8a5l5f63e1a97790f344@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231542q7402ad49nd24b2195e8bda948@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700801231549k13d5c8a5l5f63e1a97790f344@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140801231555r24dfbb46y34c39e30bb2acfe@mail.gmail.com>
On 23/01/2008, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> It was hardly "frothing", and in any event, shows Chris's heavy
> involvement in the area. He's a known partisan on these issues.
As are you, but you also have as strong an understanding of NPOV and
that we're here to write an encyclopedia as he does.
- d.
***************************************************************
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:55:11 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 23:55:11 -0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4797d45a.0269300a.1b34.03cc@mx.google.com>
The germane issue is more "will he help us get good answers"? If a user's
been partisan but still would be a "positive" on a group seeking to get
answers, that's got to be the #1 criterion.
What I've put on enwp is:
"The Committee will seek to appoint the users it feels would have the best
chance of producing a successful report with insightful findings, as its
primary criterion."
And:
"Membership is open to any editor in good standing, meeting the following
tentative criteria (broadly interpreted): 1/ A significant and relevant
editing history suggesting "hands-on" experience relevant to the group, 2/ a
record of conduct or activity that suggests an ability to work well and
constructively with others as part of such a group, 3/ a deep care and
appreciation for core wikipedia conduct and content policies, such as NPOV
(and values such as open editing), and 4/ 'drive' to see an approach found,
and to "make this work"."
Ability to collaborate well, and adding strongly to the chances of finding
good answers, matters more than their own editorship in a way. I don't mind
employing poachers turned gamekeepers on this one /if/ we feel they'd work
out well in the working group and help it.
As a side request is it possible to post comments direct to the wiki? Right
now I'm having to repost them manually from here, which I don't mind doing
for applications but would prefer not to have to also do for our own
discussion.
Thanks
Paul.
***************************************************************
From dgerard at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 00:02:55 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:02:55 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <4797d45a.0269300a.1b34.03cc@mx.google.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
<4797d45a.0269300a.1b34.03cc@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140801231602m349ad258x6231c0a75885082c@mail.gmail.com>
On 23/01/2008, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> "The Committee will seek to appoint the users it feels would have the best
> chance of producing a successful report with insightful findings, as its
> primary criterion."
This sort of thing, by the way, is what ChrisO does for a living (and
how he got an MBE).
- d.
***************************************************************
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 00:04:14 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:04:14 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140801231555r24dfbb46y34c39e30bb2acfe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231542q7402ad49nd24b2195e8bda948@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700801231549k13d5c8a5l5f63e1a97790f344@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231555r24dfbb46y34c39e30bb2acfe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700801231604q7e16fffbj98918a6a8c17aac8@mail.gmail.com>
On Jan 23, 2008 6:55 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 23/01/2008, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It was hardly "frothing", and in any event, shows Chris's heavy
> > involvement in the area. He's a known partisan on these issues.
>
>
> As are you, but you also have as strong an understanding of NPOV and
> that we're here to write an encyclopedia as he does.
Next you'll be nominating me, David. ;-)
***************************************************************
From dgerard at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 00:08:25 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:08:25 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700801231604q7e16fffbj98918a6a8c17aac8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231542q7402ad49nd24b2195e8bda948@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700801231549k13d5c8a5l5f63e1a97790f344@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231555r24dfbb46y34c39e30bb2acfe@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700801231604q7e16fffbj98918a6a8c17aac8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140801231608p115ad9b1o77265b8164340377@mail.gmail.com>
On 24/01/2008, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Next you'll be nominating me, David. ;-)
Aha! You have fallen into my trap! I think you'd actually be excellent
for the job!
(Arbs: take this as Jayjg being *drafted*.)
The point is not to remove people with even a strong point of view,
but to get good Wikipedians who know that they're here to write an
encyclopedia.
I have noticed you consistently get up the noses of lots of people ...
and they're POVwarriors. If you feel you can balance ChrisO's
opinions, I am quite sure you can work well together as Wikipedians.
- d.
***************************************************************
From dgerard at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 00:10:39 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:10:39 +0000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Working group suggestion
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140801231608p115ad9b1o77265b8164340377@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fbad4e140801231526x529b82f1kd5b79cfea2631b9e@mail.gmail.com>
<4797cf6d.0eff300a.47c2.0173@mx.google.com>
<6a8d9d700801231537m2a6cde21weda877ef5b270a35@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231542q7402ad49nd24b2195e8bda948@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700801231549k13d5c8a5l5f63e1a97790f344@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231555r24dfbb46y34c39e30bb2acfe@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700801231604q7e16fffbj98918a6a8c17aac8@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140801231608p115ad9b1o77265b8164340377@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140801231610u369071ccy6022e492e077f26d@mail.gmail.com>
On 24/01/2008, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> Aha! You have fallen into my trap! I think you'd actually be excellent
> for the job!
> (Arbs: take this as Jayjg being *drafted*.)
I should note here that my most notable case of thinking people were
excellent for Wikipedia jobs was considering Tony Sidaway and Kelly
Martin to be *perfect* admin prospects. *cough* Based on their
remarkable perceptiveness into the wacky ways of wikis, rather than
e.g. their communcation skills ...
- d.
***************************************************************
From sam.blacketer at googlemail.com Thu Jan 24 00:22:30 2008
From: sam.blacketer at googlemail.com (Sam Blacketer)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:22:30 +0000
Subj