> IRC bouncer called "idiot" by Freenode developer

Daniel Brandt

For you less technical types, let me explain that IRC bouncers on #wikipedia were upset with my logging on that channel, and imposed numerous blocks to stop me from June 2006 to September 2006. These blocks ended up covering half of Texas, as well as servers I run in another state. One block targeting me was a /16 block. This means that everything that matches the first two quads in the IP address is blocked, for a total of 65,536 possible IP addresses. A /24 block means only the last quad is a wildcard, for a total of 256 IP addresses. When the teeny-bopper power-trippers on IRC eventually realized that they couldn't simply block a single IP address in my case, they got desperate. There has been a /16 block on 69.60.* on #wikipedia for about seven months. It eventually snared a Freenode developer, who commented that "some idiot banned the entirety of my ISP." Mark Ryan, chief bouncer on the #wikipedia channel, pleads innocent, saying "it wasn't my autorem." But I anonymously complained to him back in June or so about a different /16 block targeted against me by some power-tripper, which means that Mr. Ryan, who at age 22 is almost an adult by IRC standards, should have been keeping an eye on his teeny-bopper power-trippers all along.

QUOTE

[Apr 30 2007 01:38:30] *** Joins: nenolod (i=nenolod@freenode/developer/atheme.nenolod)
[Apr 30 2007 01:39:13] <Mark_Ryan> omg daniel brandt is a freenode dev?
[Apr 30 2007 01:39:26] *** AfterDeath sets mode: -b *!*@69.60.*
[Apr 30 2007 01:40:11] *** AfterDeath sets mode: -o AfterDeath
[Apr 30 2007 01:40:20] <Mark_Ryan> it's a bit dodgy for an ip autorem to kick in on you when you're cloaked
[Apr 30 2007 01:40:33] *** Joins: nenolod (i=nenolod@freenode/developer/atheme.nenolod)
[Apr 30 2007 01:40:54] <Mark_Ryan> why did it do that, nenolod?
[Apr 30 2007 01:41:07] <nenolod> because some idiot banned the entirety of my ISP
[Apr 30 2007 01:41:38] <Mark_Ryan> yeah, but why did it autorem you when you were cloaked when you entered
[Apr 30 2007 01:41:46] <AfterDeath> Mark_Ryan: ip ban
[Apr 30 2007 01:41:51] <AfterDeath> will override a cloak
[Apr 30 2007 01:42:12] <karynn> yeah, ip bans go right through cloaks
[Apr 30 2007 01:42:24] <karynn> nenolod: you should either move out of texas or get off SBC

[Apr 30 2007 01:42:37] <Mark_Ryan> i can understand it overriding unaffiliated cloaks. but we tell people to get a cloak to avoid bans that aren't directed at them
[Apr 30 2007 01:42:38] <cmedley> Can we have a voice!
[Apr 30 2007 01:42:43] <karynn> cmedley: no
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:09] <AmiDaniel> Mark_Ryan: Who says that? As it's sort of a silly thing to say
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:12] * bumm13 slaps cmedley around a bit with a megaphone
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:16] <AfterDeath> Mark_Ryan: bans that involve dns don't override cloaks
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:21] <AfterDeath> for example, *.comcast.net
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:23] <nenolod> karynn: actually, it was a ban against my colo provider
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:24] <cmedley> And it keep asking me to make sure that it was.
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:24] <AfterDeath> doesn't override a cloak
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:27] <Mark_Ryan> ah, right
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:34] <nenolod> karynn: i dont IRC from my personal connection due to DDoS risk
[Apr 30 2007 01:43:35] <karynn> nenolod: ah
[Apr 30 2007 01:44:50] <Mark_Ryan> nenolod, can you tell me what your local host is (in IM)?
[Apr 30 2007 01:45:02] <Mark_Ryan> so I can alter the autorem list so it doesn't override cloaks
[Apr 30 2007 01:45:16] <Mark_Ryan> IM? lol. i mean, PM
[Apr 30 2007 01:45:38] <nenolod> Mark_Ryan: 69.60.119.0/24 is my IP space
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:02] <AfterDeath> Mark_Ryan: I went ahead and removed the autorem
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:07] <Mark_Ryan> does that mean 69.60.119.*?
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:15] <AfterDeath> Mark_Ryan: Under no circumstance is a /16 a valid ban to have on for half a year
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:16] <nenolod> Mark_Ryan: having a ban on 69.60.0.0/16 is generally unwise anyhow
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:21] <AfterDeath> maybe as a temporary thing
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:29] <nenolod> Mark_Ryan: multiple ASNs and ISPs are effected by such a ban
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:31] <AfterDeath> but banning /16 is just fucking stupid ™
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:40] <AmiDaniel> nenolod: Unfortunately we can't ban in CIDR, so it's often the only way to accomplish want needs to be done
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:48] <nenolod> AmiDaniel: i'm working on that
[Apr 30 2007 01:46:59] <Mark_Ryan> AfterDeath, it wasn't my autorem
[Apr 30 2007 01:47:00] <AmiDaniel> Well, not necessarily banning a /16, but banning wider ranges than needed to be banned
[Apr 30 2007 01:47:07] <AmiDaniel> nenolod: That would be awesome
[Apr 30 2007 01:47:51] <bumm13> 69.60.*.* isn't just one ISP or whatever, so yes that broad of a ban is dumb
[Apr 30 2007 01:48:22] <karynn> DEATH TO DRAMA QUEENS
[Apr 30 2007 01:48:23] <Mark_Ryan> mm, though I'm not sure how many false positives it's actually had

Jonny Cache

N*w, D*n**l, I c*nst*ntly r**d *n Wikipodium in#able f*ne s*d*m*nts *b**t n*n-c*ns*rsh*p & tr*nsp*r*ncy, s* I kn*w th*t y** m*st b* m*k*ng *ll th*s st*ff *p.

J*nny

BobbyBombastic

yes the freenode crew seems generally incompetent about everything

Robster

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Sat 5th May 2007, 12:12pm)

N*w, D*n**l, I c*nst*ntly r**d *n Wikipodium in#able f*ne s*d*m*nts *b**t n*n-c*ns*rsh*p & tr*nsp*r*ncy, s* I kn*w th*t y** m*st b* m*k*ng *ll th*s st*ff *p.

Yes, I'd like to buy a vowel, please?

Somey

We've discussed this before, but it bears repeating: Wikipedia should be running its own chat servers, but that would blur the line between Wikipedia.org and #wikipedia in terms of legal liability for what goes on in there. And they can't have that, can they?

They're perfectly aware that some of their users have terrible attitudes towards the rest of the internet - Wikipedia is, perhaps, the biggest and most powerful trolling organization ever created. They treat the rest of the internet like it's some sort of slum that's encroaching on their luxurious gated community. It's xenophobic - almost like a form of racism. Maybe we should coin a new word for it... "siteism"?

You probably can't blame people like Mark Ryan so much, though... He's actually trying to keep a lid on it, to some extent. But like Wikipedia itself, he's working within a system that doesn't give him the tools he needs to really secure that lid.

LamontStormstar

Why do people spend all day on IRC? Response from people is generally slow as if they're just learning how to type and virtually nothing interesting gets said.

D.A.F.

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th May 2007, 4:42pm)

We've discussed this before, but it bears repeating: Wikipedia should be running its own chat servers, but that would blur the line between Wikipedia.org and #wikipedia in terms of legal liability for what goes on in there. And they can't have that, can they?

They're perfectly aware that some of their users have terrible attitudes towards the rest of the internet - Wikipedia is, perhaps, the biggest and most powerful trolling organization ever created. They treat the rest of the internet like it's some sort of slum that's encroaching on their luxurious gated community. It's xenophobic - almost like a form of racism. Maybe we should coin a new word for it... "siteism"?

You probably can't blame people like Mark Ryan so much, though... He's actually trying to keep a lid on it, to some extent. But like Wikipedia itself, he's working within a system that doesn't give him the tools he needs to really secure that lid.

Its own server? Why should Wikipedia even have a chat? I never got that, the thing was supposed to be an encyclopedia what use could chat rooms have?

Joseph100

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th May 2007, 2:42pm)

We've discussed this before, but it bears repeating: Wikipedia should be running its own chat servers, but that would blur the line between Wikipedia.org and #wikipedia in terms of legal liability for what goes on in there. And they can't have that, can they?

They're perfectly aware that some of their users have terrible attitudes towards the rest of the internet - Wikipedia is, perhaps, the biggest and most powerful trolling organization ever created. They treat the rest of the internet like it's some sort of slum that's encroaching on their luxurious gated community. It's xenophobic - almost like a form of racism. Maybe we should coin a new word for it... "siteism"?

You probably can't blame people like Mark Ryan so much, though... He's actually trying to keep a lid on it, to some extent. But like Wikipedia itself, he's working within a system that doesn't give him the tools he needs to really secure that lid.

Then the vandels and huns should bust on in and show the romans a good time.

Somey

QUOTE(Xidaf @ Sat 5th May 2007, 3:46pm)

Its own server? Why should Wikipedia even have a chat? I never got that, the thing was supposed to be an encyclopedia what use could chat rooms have?

It's supposed to be an encyclopedia... but that's precisely the problem, isn't it?

Their main IRC channel (and the admins-only channel too) is a combination of an ad hoc legislative mechanism for issues requiring immediate attention, and a way for people to get to know each other "a little better" without the whole thing being stuck in a publicly-viewable database, potentially for all eternity. The recent efforts of people like User:Giano, User:Geogre, and User:Bishonen have helped to significantly reduce its use as a legislating device, but that has the effect of making it more of a social gathering... And, of course, the attitudes are unchanged, and still there for anyone to see, though in general the whole thing has gotten to be a lot less interesting.

BobbyBombastic

I suppose they don't set up their own network because freenode must not mind them around.

It would take a significant amount of time to run and manage a wikipedia exclusive network but there shouldn't be a shortage of cult members willing to please The Leader. Why they don't is an interesting question.

michael

QUOTE(BobbyBombastic @ Sat 5th May 2007, 4:43pm)

I suppose they don't set up their own network because freenode must not mind them around.

It would take a significant amount of time to run and manage a wikipedia exclusive network but there shouldn't be a shortage of cult members willing to please The Leader. Why they don't is an interesting question.

The Wikimedia Foundation (see Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2006-11-06/News and notes) donated $5,000 to Freenode last year or something to cover bandwidth costs that #wikipedia incurs.

GlassBeadGame

QUOTE(BobbyBombastic @ Sat 5th May 2007, 5:43pm)

I suppose they don't set up their own network because freenode must not mind them around.

It would take a significant amount of time to run and manage a wikipedia exclusive network but there shouldn't be a shortage of cult members willing to please The Leader. Why they don't is an interesting question.

I think Wikipedians are trying to gain some hacker cred by using freenode. It (WP) is perfect for idiot "leets" who have only a near normal fund of general knowledge and a weak handle on EZ markup language. A pretty low bar. The channel is so low due to 1)nothing to say 2) low social skills 3) the rudeness of bullies if you do say anything.

D.A.F.

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 5th May 2007, 5:12pm)

QUOTE(Xidaf @ Sat 5th May 2007, 3:46pm)

Its own server? Why should Wikipedia even have a chat? I never got that, the thing was supposed to be an encyclopedia what use could chat rooms have?

It's supposed to be an encyclopedia... but that's precisely the problem, isn't it?

Their main IRC channel (and the admins-only channel too) is a combination of an ad hoc legislative mechanism for issues requiring immediate attention, and a way for people to get to know each other "a little better" without the whole thing being stuck in a publicly-viewable database, potentially for all eternity. The recent efforts of people like User:Giano, User:Geogre, and User:Bishonen have helped to significantly reduce its use as a legislating device, but that has the effect of making it more of a social gathering... And, of course, the attitudes are unchanged, and still there for anyone to see, though in general the whole thing has gotten to be a lot less interesting.

Hmmm., interesting that IRC could have some positive value, as I have absolutly seen none. Not that I connected on it, I never did, I find it dumb, it diverts the attention from the encyclopedia to a social gathering. I have seen the influences from it two times, the first was during an arbitration cases(not the one that got me banned) where members would jump in the cases to defend a member without having a clue and who were brought from the IRC channels, and I'll learn that some users talk on my back there getting members who I don't even know against me. The second time used to talk on my back again. I never witnessed it, people reported me what they saw there.

I think a potential reason why they don't want to host the chat rooms, could be that they don't want to take responsability on what weant there or that it leaves Wikipedia as a project mainly to write an encyclopedia. It could be disastrous for them that the chatrooms could finally become as much popular as the main project.

wikilove

How does one get on the IRC channel (clueless here). What software? Link?

norsemoose

QUOTE(wikilove @ Sat 5th May 2007, 7:56pm)

How does one get on the IRC channel (clueless here). What software? Link?

Any software that supports the IRC protocol can be used to connect to Wikipedia's IRC channel. mIRC, chatzilla, gaim, irssi, xchat, and dozens of other programs exist to allow you to use IRC. Also, if you don't want to install anything, there are java chat engines available at various locations on the internet (although you'd have to go looking for them), or you can connect via cgi:irc gateways, such as http://ircatwork.com. Of course, if you do elect to use a gateway, be aware that Wikipedia has them on permament +q due to the fact that trolls often use those. Also also, realize that, when you are connected to IRC, your IP is visible to anyone who is logged on - if you are concerned about this, you can ask a staffer for a cloak, or use tor. (CGI:IRC stores your IP in a hash which can be read)

#wikipedia is hosted on irc.freenode.net. Incidentally, so is the official Wikipedia Review channel, which is ##thewikipediareview on freenode.

Cedric

QUOTE(wikilove @ Sat 5th May 2007, 9:56pm)

How does one get on the IRC channel (clueless here). What software? Link?

I have used X-Chat, which you can download from here.

wikilove

Is this the place where they all conspire to conspire?

How is it that they assure themselves that the attending population is OF ONE MIND?

norsemoose

QUOTE(wikilove @ Sat 5th May 2007, 8:05pm)

Is this the place where they all conspire to conspire?

Actually, usually it's just a massive circlejerk and a bunch of off-topic bullshit. Quite boring really.

Here's a random discussion from earlier today.

QUOTE

18:59 < ElbridgeGerry> I like just pulling up spotlight and looking up an IRC nick
18:59 < kenlyric> I used to irc through gaim, so I kept logs off because I have to keep them off for work.
18:59 < Z-Bronx_Kev> F**K it.
18:59 < Z-Bronx_Kev> if it's that big of a deal
19:00 < Z-Bronx_Kev> I got a bot that can handle it right now.
19:00 -!- Gracenotes_ [n=chatzill@wikipedia/Gracenotes] has joined #wikipedia
19:00 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Give me an admin word and a server.
19:00 -!- Ashfire [i=AshHome@166.166.2.141] has joined #wikipedia
19:00 -!- Ashfire908 [i=AshHome@wikipedia/Andrew-Hampe] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
19:00 < Stephaknee> Z-Bronx_Kev: ?
19:00 * Gracenotes_ pokes Gurch
19:00 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Stephaknee: 24/7 Logging bot.
19:00 -!- Ashfire is now known as Ashfire908
19:00 < kenlyric> someone once sent me an ircII script that included a log of the netsex they had... I've sorta shied away from logging since then.
19:00 < Alkivar> anyone here who wants a wii who hasnt been able to get their hands on one yet?
19:00 < Z-Bronx_Kev> uh..Me?
19:00 < Stephaknee> Z-Bronx_Kev: so youre threatening us now? or are you offering us services?
19:00 < Gurch> what?
19:00 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Offering Services.
19:00 -!- |therethere| [i=therethe@89.214.159.249] has joined #wikipedia
19:01 < Stephaknee> Z-Bronx_Kev: why would we want it?+
19:01 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Some people are saying they want public logs.
19:01 -!- snail [n=Snail@p2253-ipad306hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
19:01 < Stephaknee> Z-Bronx_Kev: read the topic.
19:01 <@Mike42> Z-Bronx_Kev: We already have bots that can do that anyway, I have a bot for logging meetings in #wikimedia-au for instance
19:01 < Stephaknee> they are pretty specifically banned.
19:01 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Well there ya go mike has one anyway
19:01 <@Mike42> (and posting the results on meta or beta.wikiversity)
19:01 < Z-Bronx_Kev> <Z-Bronx_Kev> Give me an admin word and a server. <-- ADMIN WORD.
19:01 < Stephaknee> Z-Bronx_Kev: its not like theyre hard to make......ive run them before
19:01 < Z-Bronx_Kev> I didn't say they were.
19:01 < ElbridgeGerry> ADMIN. WORD.
19:02 < Stephaknee> Z-Bronx_Kev: daniel brandt is probably an admin.

19:02 < Z-Bronx_Kev> The fuck are you over analyzing this? I just offered a bot if the admins wanted a public log -.-
19:02 < ElbridgeGerry> Am I the only one who thinks the ops are using Brandt like Emmanuel Goldstein?
19:02 < ElbridgeGerry> He might not even exist,
19:02 -!- Kstigarbha [n=KSTIGARB@p21020-adsau14honb7-acca.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit ["ArrivederLa"]
19:02 < Messedrocker> He exists.
19:02 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Elbridge what the hell are you talking about?
19:02 < ElbridgeGerry> but he's something we can rally against
19:02 < ElbridgeGerry> CABAL LOLOLOL
19:02 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Who is Emmanuyel Goldstein?
19:03 -!- mode/#wikipedia [-oo Mike42 AntiSpamMeta] by Mike42
19:03 < ElbridgeGerry> Z-Bronx_Kev: 1984, my friend
19:03 < tommah> ElbridgeGerry: i never thought of that

19:03 < ElbridgeGerry> Two Minutes Hate!
19:04 < Gracenotes_> heh
19:04 * Gracenotes_ huggles ElbridgeGerry
19:04 < Stephaknee> Z-Bronx_Kev: dont be a fucking asshole to me.
19:04 < ElbridgeGerry> Stephaknee: Don't call Bronx a "fucking asshole"
19:04 < Gracenotes_> ElbridgeGerry: I always thought that Larry was more of a Goldstein
19:04 < Gracenotes_> no, I'm joking ;D
19:04 -!- loldongs [n=alexa@ool-4355da7b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #wikipedia
19:05 < ElbridgeGerry> Gracenotes_: He was a founder...But now he's a traitor!
19:05 < tommah> what if one of us, in this channel, is daniel brandt is logging us
19:05 < Ashfire908> lol, just helped a person with eggdrop trouble
19:05 < Messedrocker> LMS is like Goldstein in that he split away
19:05 < Gracenotes_> I AM TEH LOGGER
19:05 < ElbridgeGerry> What if I'm Daniel Brandt
19:05 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Stephaknee: Who the fuck is being a fuck asshole to you? I make one simple suggestion and you start over analyzing shit and throwing around fucking petty remarks like, IT'S NOT THAT HARD, I'VE GOT EM TO MAKE, when you aren't even reading my fucking sentences.
19:05 < Gracenotes_> no, I'm joking

19:05 < Ashfire908> they didn't edit the file at all
19:05 < loldongs> OMG
19:05 -!- Stephaknee [n=ppl@unaffiliated/stephaknee] has left #wikipedia ["Irssi: Doesn't advertise in /part messages!"]
19:05 < Messedrocker> but Brandt is like Goldstein in that he is considered by some to be the site-wide antagonist so-to-speak
19:05 < loldongs> HOW IS I EDITNG SHIT ON WIKI?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
19:05 < Gracenotes_> plus, Daniel Brandt probebably doesn't care about this channel anymore
19:05 < Gracenotes_> nothing interesting happens here
19:05 < ElbridgeGerry> /kick loldongs
19:05 < Z-Bronx_Kev> And ElbridgeGerry, I handle myself.
19:06 -!- mode/#wikipedia [+o Messedrocker] by ChanServ
19:06 < Gracenotes_> loldongs: what do you want?
19:06 < Gracenotes_> eh
19:06 -!- mode/#wikipedia [+b *loldongs*!*@*] by Messedrocker
19:06 -!- loldongs was kicked from #wikipedia by Messedrocker [lolololololol]
19:06 < ElbridgeGerry> <Z-Bronx_Kev> I WORK ALONE. I AM THE BATMAN.
19:06 < Z-Bronx_Kev> Something like that.
19:06 < Gracenotes_> ZOMGZ ROBIN
19:06 <@Messedrocker> lol robin's a girl name
19:06 < Ashfire908> the config file still had both "die" lines
19:07 < Gracenotes_> Messedrocker: well... maybe the author was trying to tell us something about Robin...
19:08 -!- domster [n=dominic@125-238-112-127.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #wikipedia
19:08 -!- iwws [n=Cepreu@80.73.83.182] has joined #wikipedia
19:09 < Ksero> [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2007_NBA_Playoffs&diff=128528282&oldid=128528143]... so there are people that relay match info directly to wikipedia?

19:10 < contestant> You underestimate the obsessive nature of Wikipedians
19:10 < contestant> If anything, anywhere, at any time, happens
19:10 < ElbridgeGerry> Ksero: I did it during the world cup
19:10 < contestant> It will be posted. In two minutes or less.
19:10 < Cyrius> Ksero: people are strange
19:10 < Cyrius> there are people who summarize hurricane forecasts so the articles are current to the hour
19:10 * Messedrocker checks up on his AFD
19:11 -!- torch [n=torchie@adsl-156-231-224.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"]
19:11 -!- Ashfire908 [i=AshHome@wikipedia/Andrew-Hampe] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
19:11 < ElbridgeGerry> Cyrius: Ooh, I did that last summer
19:11 -!- Ashfire [i=AshHome@wikipedia/Andrew-Hampe] has joined #wikipedia
19:11 * Cyrius did it before it was cool
19:11 < Ashfire> ...and my connection sucks
19:12 < mindspillage> Cyrius: "before"? It's cool now? ::ducks::
19:12 < ElbridgeGerry> dictionary
19:12 < Cyrius> =)

Note that technically, publishing logs is against channel policy in #wikipedia and most other Wikimedia-related channels. Also note that I really don't give a shit about #wikipedia policies, and it's not like they can find me anyway.

Nathan

QUOTE(wikilove @ Sat 5th May 2007, 10:56pm)

How does one get on the IRC channel (clueless here). What software? Link?

See this thread but change the channel to #wikipedia instead. Make sure you follow the instructions for cloaking your IP if you care that others see it.

CrazyGameOfPoker

QUOTE(Xidaf @ Sat 5th May 2007, 4:46pm)

Its own server? Why should Wikipedia even have a chat? I never got that, the thing was supposed to be an encyclopedia what use could chat rooms have?

It makes some sense administratively, to have some sort of chatroom. On wiki discussions because they use the wiki software, are more akin to message boards...which is the internet equivalent of a time delayed system...it's essentially writing letters back and forth. Chatrooms on the other hand are more for instantaneous communication, like talking face to face. Administratively, if something bad happens, it's easier to coordinate efforts if you use an instantaneous method.

However, it doesn't have it's drawbacks. On wiki discussions are public, and unless an admin goes a bit trigger happy wtih delete or oversight, it's going to remain public. On IRC (well on #wikipedia et al), people are extremely phobic of loggers, which means there are a lot of closed discussions, ones that can lead to people getting railroaded.

Gracenotes

As I said, nothing interesting happens there. The channel is mostly composed of minor discussions of on-wiki actions or developments, interesting items its members have discovered on the internet, abd trivial conversation of a general in-jokes quality. Several times each day a constructive policy discussion may show up, but in its "bored" state the channel is inconsequential.

BobbyBombastic

QUOTE(Xidaf @ Sun 6th May 2007, 2:37am)

I think a potential reason why they don't want to host the chat rooms, could be that they don't want to take responsability on what weant there or that it leaves Wikipedia as a project mainly to write an encyclopedia. It could be disastrous for them that the chatrooms could finally become as much popular as the main project.

This is what I was thinking as well. From some comments I have gathered on wiki about IRC, there are certain people that only IRC and do not edit WP.

If an IRC channel didn't exist on some type of semi-officious level like it does now (I think a dedicated Wikipedia IRC network would be much more official), it would exist on an even less officious level, such as a particular user starting a channel on XYZ network. I see some serious contributors that still buy into the project are against the role IRC has in Wikipedia. It is very much inescapable.

I can understand both sides. I'm really not sure if heavily editing WP has had a higher purpose beyond boredom killing and socializing for quite some time, so whether or not they have an IRC channel is immaterial to me.

I'd like to vouch for Gracenotes comment that nothing really ever happens in #wikipedia. The other invite only channels probably have more high points of drama. #wikipedia is very much like any other channel I have ever been in, except a lot more boring and less ASCII art.

As an aside, I used to idle in a World of Warcraft irc channel, not because I played the game, but I love reading the back and forth nerd talk (mages, etc). It makes me laugh. #Wikipedia reminds me very much of that, except as I said before, more boring.

wikilove

QUOTE(BobbyBombastic @ Sun 6th May 2007, 7:40am)

I'm really not sure if heavily editing WP has had a higher purpose beyond boredom killing and socializing for quite some time

Word.

Except for that you forgot the high-level Wiki-drama factor of throwing humans to the lions in the Colluseum.

jch

QUOTE(BobbyBombastic @ Sat 5th May 2007, 11:43pm)

I suppose they don't set up their own network because freenode must not mind them around.

It would take a significant amount of time to run and manage a wikipedia exclusive network but there shouldn't be a shortage of cult members willing to please The Leader. Why they don't is an interesting question.

Most of the wikipedia-related channels are (imo) useful. There are techy types in #wikimedia-tech willing to help with problems with the site, there's people in #wikimedia-toolserver if you need something done with the site that would be repetitive or involve vast amounts of data churning.

The steward channel is there for emergencies and the other wikis seem to all have somewhat active channels where there's productive discussion.

It boils down to the problems being #wikipedia, #wikipedia-en, and its subsidiary channels (#wikipedia-en-admins) being the problems.

Rootology

How exactly are they even finding the Brandt bots who idle? There are always a zillion idle people in those channels. Just by IP? Why not just use a free cloak? Takes a minute to get setup.