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thekohser
Sit down for this one, folks.

It demands your focus.

I'm honestly having trouble understanding if this was a big, ultimately boring April Fool's joke laid by Jimbo, or whether he really is this stupid.

Modernista! is an ad agency. They have this little trick on their website, where depending on where you linked in to them from, that's the page they'll render as the "background" on their site.

Maybe it's simplest to understand if you view it from this here link.

Now, imagine what happens when you click the link to www.modernista.com from the Wikipedia page about Modernista!

You see a Wikipedia "background" overlaid with Modernista's script. It's cute. It's fun. It's a cheeky ad agency.

Enter Jimbo.

QUOTE
I have asked this company to stop hotlinking and framing

Upon requests from members of the community, and in discussion with Florence Devouard, I contacted this company to kindly ask them to stop hotlinking and framing our site. They are doing so here in a manner which imposes their logo over ours, and traps the user inside a frame while surfing our site.

I believe that what they are doing is disrespectful to our community, and at cross-purposes with what we are trying to accomplish with Wikipedia. To be clear: Wikipedia does not exist to serve as the homepage of their website. I tried to work with them quietly, but they have simply refused my requests. (Or, to be more accurate, they have ignored my requests.)

It seems clear to me that they are likely to lose a lot of business: who would hire an ad agency in a "web 2.0" capacity with so little understanding of how communities work?

I recommend that a template be placed at the top of the page with a warning to the user explaining the situation, including the fact that we have asked them to stop and they have not.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


Now, it's completely possible that Jimbo was playing an April Fool's here, pretending he didn't understand that the user is not "trapped" in a frame. But, then -- why did FT2 and AlisonW and Tomtheman5 continue to play dumb, and play dumb, and play dumb, even into April 2nd and April 3rd, with no "Okay, it was a joke, everybody."?

So, that might leave the more unsettling alternative that Jimbo really did talk to FloFlo, and that everybody in WikipediotLand thinks that Modernista! is specifically "doing" this to Wikipedia, and Wikipedia alone. Granted, if you type "Modernista.com" manually into your browser, their host is redirecting to a "/7/index.php" extension that does, indeed, choose the Wikipedia page about Modernista! as its background.

But, come on. Is Jimbo really that hung up about "his" brand to think that this is going to bring anything but a "stupid Wikipediots" reaction from the advertising trade press, the courts, and (most importantly) the court of public opinion?

I guess this is for real. Jimbo's a total... what's the word I'm looking for?

Greg
JukoFF
QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 4th April 2008, 4:26am) *

I'm honestly having trouble understanding if this was a big, ultimately boring April Fool's joke laid by Jimbo, or whether he really is this stupid.


He's that stupid. Sure.

I like this from the Modernista talk page:

QUOTE
Modernista is using this article as the modernista.com homepage. This breaks Wikipedia policy: Wikipedia is not your web host ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NOT#WEBHOST ) --70.44.78.154 (talk) 14:11, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


What the hell does THAT mean?
They're using Wikipedia as a GRAPHIC BACKGROUND, not a server.
Idiot.

Only the last comment mentions April Fool's Day.....

Jimbo is PWNED
Jonny Cache
Lemma git dis strait —

Jimbo's mad at someone for hotlinking and framing?

Maybe he's still sore about the last time that happened to him …

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
And now, the transcluded template:

Notice:
QUOTE
The website for this company obscures our logo with their own, and may lead the viewer to believe that Wikipedia serves as their homepage provider. This is not correct. Wikipedia has no affiliation with Modernista and has requested that Modernista cease this use of our website.

Heaven forbid that someone might obscure Wikipedia's logo with... their own! Why, it wouldn't be... correct!

What's next, I wonder... maybe they'll put a transcluded template on the Microsoft article stating that it's not "correct" that Microsoft Windows can be used to open rectangular "windows" over the running web browser that obscure the WP logo.
Jonny Cache
On a related note, I'm still trying to figure out what this is:

http://www.1-1-2008.com/wiki/?title=Main_Page

Is it a scraping? Or some kind of self-scraping?

They must be German — 'cause look, I'm already auto-banned!

http://www.1-1-2008.com/wiki/index.php?title=User:Jon_Awbrey

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:58am) *
Is it a scraping? Or some kind of self-scraping?

Fascinating! Where do you find this stuff...?

I think this is some new kind of "real-time" scraper. It looks like someone wrote a server app to grab WP content in real time and automatically parse and replace all the links with 1-1-2008.com URL's (which in turn simply cause the server to replace "1-1-2008.com" with "en.wikipedia.org"), and all instances of the word "Wikipedia" with "My Wiki."

I wonder what happens if you try to edit a page? Presumably it gives you a WP edit form...
bluevictim
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 3rd April 2008, 11:10pm) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:58am) *
Is it a scraping? Or some kind of self-scraping?

Fascinating! Where do you find this stuff...?

I think this is some new kind of "real-time" scraper. It looks like someone wrote a server app to grab WP content in real time and automatically parse and replace all the links with 1-1-2008.com URL's (which in turn simply cause the server to replace "1-1-2008.com" with "en.wikipedia.org"), and all instances of the word "Wikipedia" with "My Wiki."

I wonder what happens if you try to edit a page? Presumably it gives you a WP edit form...

This is a mirror of Wikipedia and scrapes content from there, and I think Somey is right. I believe it replaces all instances of en.wikipedia.org to 1-1-2008 and "Wikipedia" with "My Wiki". Therefore, it scraped Jonny's ban template.

One can not edit My Wiki. Apparently, the title and function are replaced with refreshing the page, but the /w/index.php?title=foo&action=edit" thing and "You can edit this page" title still exist.
One
Maybe they turned their referrers off. If they did, the site always seems like it's Wikipedia. Piperdown might be more influential than is given credit!
Jacina
QUOTE

As above, it appears that the first thing you see is whatever the referring site was. If you click into the links, they direct off to other sites - Flickr hosts their work portfolio, for example. The company appears to be trying to point out that they know Web 2.0 by immersing themselves in it. Tony Fox (arf!) 04:07, 22 March 2008 (UTC)



Think thats the first time someone lays it out in the open... but J and his cronies fall for it, a week + later haha

/back to lurking mode
guy
So what can Jimbo do to Modernista!? Ban them? Do they have an account? Delete the article because they have somehow ceased to be notable?

And of course they can take a copy of the article and do whatever they like with it because of GFDL.
Jacina
Btw, I'm not 100% positive but if you hit up modernista without a "last page" or go to it from modernista itself, they put wikipedia in the back.

Someone removed the (hilarious) tag on the top, that was reverted though. Guess they got to play it out till the end.
badlydrawnjeff
But wait - isn't this all GFDL information anyway? Does Wales really have any sort of case here?
dtobias
QUOTE(bluevictim @ Fri 4th April 2008, 2:21am) *

This is a mirror of Wikipedia and scrapes content from there, and I think Somey is right. I believe it replaces all instances of en.wikipedia.org to 1-1-2008 and "Wikipedia" with "My Wiki". Therefore, it scraped Jonny's ban template.


There's this essay about why censoring sites that criticize My Wiki is bad.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 4th April 2008, 2:10am) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:58am) *

Is it a scraping? Or some kind of self-scraping?


Fascinating! Where do you find this stuff…?

I think this is some new kind of "real-time" scraper. It looks like someone wrote a server app to grab WP content in real time and automatically parse and replace all the links with 1-1-2008.com URL's (which in turn simply cause the server to replace "1-1-2008.com" with "en.wikipedia.org"), and all instances of the word "Wikipedia" with "My Wiki."

I wonder what happens if you try to edit a page? Presumably it gives you a WP edit form...


Just turned up in my routine searches …

I've seen lots and lots of scrapers before — Cassiopedia does the same sort of word substitution trick, sub[Cassiopedia/Wikipedia] almost everywhere, for instance — what makes this one a little more curious is that they leave intact all the notices that seem to say it's a Wikimedia Foundation project.

Jonny cool.gif
guy
QUOTE(guy @ Fri 4th April 2008, 11:24am) *

And of course they can take a copy of the article and do whatever they like with it because of GFDL.

QUOTE(badlydrawnjeff @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:58pm) *

But wait - isn't this all GFDL information anyway?

My, Jeff's sharp!
thekohser
QUOTE(guy @ Fri 4th April 2008, 6:24am) *

So what can Jimbo do to Modernista!?


There's only one thing he CAN do in the eye-for-an-eye adventure we know as Wikipedia. He's got to get Brion Vibber on the horn and ask him to gin up a "mini overlay" version of all 2.3 million Wikipedia pages. Then, Vibber has to code it so that the Modernista! logo and the firm's address at 109 Kingston Street in Boston (617-451-1110) appear as the BACKGROUND for all the miniaturized Wikipedia pages!

Man, Modernista! would freakin' HATE that kind of retaliation. They'd be out of business in 2 days.

wacko.gif

Greg
thekohser
This thread has been forwarded to Brian Bergstein and Cade Metz. We're due for a Jimbo Blooper in the press, aren't we? It's been a couple of weeks since the last one, right?

Greg
cyofee
It's just Jimbo chasing windmills again.

Nothing to see here, folks.
One
QUOTE(cyofee @ Fri 4th April 2008, 8:00pm) *

It's just Jimbo chasing windmills again.

Nothing to see here, folks.

Yep. He's way out of tune with the community; once again unfamiliar with the values of the project he started. It was listed on MfD, has 15 !deletes and not a single keep.

Ignoring the absurdity of it, how is such a template encyclopedic? It's ten times sillier than the spoiler templates ever were.

Warning! In the event you were looking at this material from Modernista.com, we want you to know we don't like what they're doing. (For all of you reading a scraped site, or perhaps a someday-printed volume of wikipedia, ignore this message.)
Moulton
The knee-jerk reactions of one manager are rarely the wisest course of action for a professional enterprise in the long run.
tarantino
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 4th April 2008, 6:10am) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 4th April 2008, 12:58am) *
Is it a scraping? Or some kind of self-scraping?

Fascinating! Where do you find this stuff...?

I think this is some new kind of "real-time" scraper. It looks like someone wrote a server app to grab WP content in real time and automatically parse and replace all the links with 1-1-2008.com URL's (which in turn simply cause the server to replace "1-1-2008.com" with "en.wikipedia.org"), and all instances of the word "Wikipedia" with "My Wiki."

I wonder what happens if you try to edit a page? Presumably it gives you a WP edit form...


1-1-2008.com is owned by Matt Hough (or 'Matt Huffy). He also owns advtise.com, which does pay-per-click contextual advertising.
Yehudi
QUOTE(One @ Sat 5th April 2008, 8:50am) *

once again unfamiliar with the values of the project he started.

Perhaps he should retain Larry Sanger as a consultant.
Milton Roe
QUOTE(Yehudi @ Sat 5th April 2008, 10:34pm) *

QUOTE(One @ Sat 5th April 2008, 8:50am) *

once again unfamiliar with the values of the project he started.

Perhaps he should retain Larry Sanger as a consultant.

The idea of the day! And Dr. Sanger is a philosopher, I'm told.

However, neither Sanger nor Wales seems capable of learning from the other's failings, so I don't think there's much hope. To get ahead in this world, you're supposed to COPY the GOOD parts of the other guy's system, and replace or improve the BAD parts. Both Sanger and Wales insist on reinventing everything for themselves, starting from where they parted ways. Arghhh. mad.gif
thekohser
QUOTE(Moulton @ Sat 5th April 2008, 9:55am) *

The knee-jerk reactions of one manager are rarely the wisest course of action for a professional enterprise in the long run.


The knee-jerk reaction (emphasis intentional) is Jimbo's only perfectly-executed move.
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