Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Telstra boss in Wikipedia row - The Age
> Media Forums > News Worth Discussing
Newsfeed
Telstra boss in Wikipedia row
The Age, Australia -22 minutes ago
A US law firm has reportedly threatened Wikimedia with legal action unless it removes "defamatory statements" from the Wikipedia entry of Telstra boss Sol ...

View the article
thekohser
This is a very interesting article, and the others that have been coming out on the topic also seem to introduce new variations on the details. None of the media reports seem to have one unified interpretation of events.

The most fascinating quote in this particular "The Age" article is:

QUOTE
The Telstra spokesman said Wikipedia had recognised the "defamatory and innaccurate'' information on the page and had taken steps to stop the comments, including appointing an administrator to oversee the content of the page.


How's that going to go with the upcoming Section 230 defenses that are sure to be trotted out in the next couple of years?

Greg
dogbiscuit
QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 13th June 2008, 5:21pm) *

This is where the copyleft movement lose it: they are so worried about their loss of freedoms that they do not see the harm. They quite happily put up an analysis that says "Ha, you can't do this, go away you nasty man." without answering the question of how the harmed individual does get satisfaction. They want a one way street.
Rootology
QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Fri 13th June 2008, 9:37am) *

This is where the copyleft movement lose it: they are so worried about their loss of freedoms that they do not see the harm. They quite happily put up an analysis that says "Ha, you can't do this, go away you nasty man." without answering the question of how the harmed individual does get satisfaction. They want a one way street.


Correct. An interesting question is what comes into play when if/when it's factual information in some cases, however. In the US at least, truth is an absolute legal defense against libel, slander, or defamation charges (and an ethical and moral one, really).

At a quick glance, what looks like a problem revision, #196271256, is sourced entirely except for allegations of a resignation from a US firm--that source, #10, is dead. Definitely was a shitty article, either way, but unless I'm missing something obvious I didn't see any overtly untruthful statement(s) except for the passage about the former Australian Prime Minister. Weird.

It looks like a CYA pruning of the article by the Wikimedia Foundation. But, if they mailed Godwin and the WMF about this, how did it trickle down to the regular admins without an official action/statement by the WMF? Curious.

NPOV wise it was a nightmare.

Ah, looks like Alison oversighted and hid the bad stuff:

QUOTE
Please. I've been watching this page all day as well as the newspaper reports, and have been biting my tongue. Let me just say that the oversighted edits referred to in the letter and in the newspaper had nothing to do with Mr. Trujillo's business or political affairs whatsoever. It was more of a blatant and highly personalized attack upon his character. Oversight policy and privacy policy means I cannot say more than that, and cannot divulge the contents, which I saw and personally removed. The Telegraph article is more accurate when they refer to "highly defamatory, false and offensive personal comments" - Alison ❤ 05:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


Jimbo on the talk page:

QUOTE
The press is suggesting that Mr. Trujillo must have done something to get Wikipedia to take down legitimate criticism of him. This is absolutely false. Mr. Trujillo's attorneys made a serious of justified complaints about an IP number inserting vicious libel against him, complaints which we dealt with appropriately and effectively. There has been absolutely no effort by those attorneys to remove legitimate criticism; indeed, nothing of the sort was even discussed.

It is sad to see a media so irresponsible as to make it seem that Wikipedia would cave to a few lawyers letters objecting to legitimate criticism. It is even sadder to see Mr. Trujillo attacked by that same irresponsible media for something that he did not do.

This article should be a good article. It should detail Mr. Trujillo's career in a neutral and responsible fashion. It should contain both accomplishments and appropriate mention of legitimate criticism. The libel, which was disgusting lies put forward by an anonymous ip number who I hope Mr. Trujillo tracks down and punishes for their attacks, had nothing to do with his business work but was just a juvenile insult.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


The magic oversight gap, I think: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=190877982
thekohser
QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 13th June 2008, 1:18pm) *

Jimbo on the talk page:

QUOTE
...The libel, which was disgusting lies put forward by an anonymous ip number who I hope Mr. Trujillo tracks down and punishes for their attacks, had nothing to do with his business work but was just a juvenile insult.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)


OBVIOUS COMMENT TIME:

Isn't it lovely how the article about Jimmy Wales is magically prevented from anonymous IP number attacks, but for some strange reason, that courtesy is not extended to 99% of the other biographies of living persons on Wikipedia?

And people question why I am running for the Board of Trustees.

Too funny and too sad, all at once.

Greg
Saltimbanco
QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 13th June 2008, 1:34pm) *

Isn't it lovely how the article about Jimmy Wales is magically prevented from anonymous IP number attacks, but for some strange reason, that courtesy is not extended to 99% of the other biographies of living persons on Wikipedia?

Well, we have it straight from Jimmy Wales that hinting at a lawsuit doesn't change anything. Nope. Why, a couple of anonymous teenagers probably could have made the "serious (sic) of justified complaints about an IP number inserting vicious libel," and Mr. Trujillo's article would have been cleaned up and oversighted in exactly the same way. Yeppers. Simple as that.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE
...The libel, which was disgusting lies put forward by an anonymous ip number who I hope Mr. Trujillo tracks down and punishes for their attacks, had nothing to do with his business work but was just a juvenile insult.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)



I don't get this Freudian slip of JImbo's. Sooooooo.... if the the libel have had anything to do with Mr. T's work, it was ok? When is libel ok? I think never, but hey, what do I know. And defamation? rolleyes.gif Jimbo justifies defamation - or has in the past - and here he says that the libel is not ok, ONLY because it has no relation to the guys' work? Humroo?

My Questions:
  • When is online libel ok?
  • When is online defamation ok?
I won't even go into the "of course, there should be better corrective measures in place" because that's such an old subject that there's no point. We all know that in Jimbo-world, that everything is fine, as long as Jimbo's fine. (Or in the rare case that someone he can make use of asks him for assistance).

On another note - this was a political attack. Whatever that means. It seems to have been that. I doubt the libelist will be found.
Alison
QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Sat 14th June 2008, 7:31am) *

On another note - this was a political attack. Whatever that means. It seems to have been that. I doubt the libelist will be found.

The attack that I oversighted was not political or business-related in any way, and I happen to know that the legal letter related to those attacks only, and not to any of the business-zOMG-scandal! stuff that is in the history. So the papers got it wrong in that respect and since then, the original storybreaker has come out with this statement.

I notice some ... "familiar" names in the "comments" section, too biggrin.gif Fair point indeed, Greg.
thekohser
QUOTE(Alison @ Mon 16th June 2008, 8:11pm) *

I notice some ... "familiar" names in the "comments" section, too biggrin.gif Fair point indeed, Greg.


Why, thank you, Alison. These are the types of comments that I used to make on Wikipedia with sockpuppets, but people in positions of authority there couldn't stand to hear them, so their solution was to keep blocking the sockpuppets, along with any other account that started saying things similar to my sockpuppets.

Anyway, bygones.

I took the liberty of adding another comment to Stuart Corner's IT blog, challenging him to do some investigative journalism into the BonziBUDDY incident of October 2007, where Jimbo Wales single-handedly tried to reframe that application from hated spyware to beloved software. I hope Stuart takes the bait.

Greg
guy
QUOTE(Alison @ Tue 17th June 2008, 1:11am) *

The attack that I oversighted was not political or business-related in any way, and I happen to know that the legal letter related to those attacks only, and not to any of the business-zOMG-scandal! stuff that is in the history. So the papers got it wrong in that respect and since then, the original storybreaker has come out with this statement.

Alison's statement is original research. It contadicts reliable sources (newspapers). I don't believe that the cited statement is a reliable source, so cannot be used to contradict the newspapers.

If this sounds like rubbish, all I am doing is adhering to WP:NOR, WP:RS and WP:V. biggrin.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.