•Giles Hattersley's disappearing Wikipedia entry
Telegraph.co.uk, United Kingdom -10 minutes ago
Giles Hattersley, writing in today's Times, bemoans the inaccuracy of Wikipedia. Regular readers of this blog will know that I disagree completely but ...
View the article
There was an article about this in Wikipedia but now it has been deleted by Wales, leaving only the talk page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Giles_Hattersley
what on earth is going on?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Giles_Hattersley
what on earth is going on?
QUOTE
Be careful that Mr. Hattersley does not misconstrue this deletion as an acknowledgment that the article contained the falsehoods that Mr. Hattersley claimed it contained (before the article existed). Right now he can point to the deletion log and his readers will only see that the article was deleted 20:48, 8 February 2009 by Jimbo Wales, and assume that the deletion was in direct response to Mr. Hattersley's rant found here. — CharlotteWebb 21:01, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
QUOTE
My entry features at least two errors, one libellous (unless my mother has been keeping a dark secret, I am not Roy Hattersley’s son). “Yes, sometimes a person will post something that is a commonly held error. I say to people that just because you’ve heard something somewhere does not make it valid.â€
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...icle5682896.ece
http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/ne...icle5682896.ece
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=269382491
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gia..._for_incivility
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...User%3AGiano_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=269373614
QUOTE
I have temporarily deleted this article, and kindly request that no one restore it until we've sorted out all the facts. Giano has been blocked for 24 hours by me for incivility related to this entry. Jay and I are already aware of the situation and I am reaching out to the newspaper for further clarification.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gia..._for_incivility
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...User%3AGiano_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=269373614
On Wales' talk page it appears Hattersley made the false claim that the article about him was libellous. But there was no article at all about Hattersley until Giano created one today. Now Wales has deleted the article making it look as though Hattersley's claim was true (or at least irrefutable - we now know that deleting pages that may have been innocent can give the appearance of guilt). What a tangled web.
QUOTE
I agree with your concern completely. I am deeply concerned about us making an allegation that Mr. Hattersley has lied. That, if true, could be a job-ending issue at a newspaper of strong reputation, which the Sunday Times is. For this reason, I have deleted the article about Mr. Hattersley, which appears to me have been created for the sole purpose of making this claim. Wikipedia is neither a tabloid, nor a newspaper of any kind. There are many possible explanations for what Hattersley wrote, including but not limited to:
*An overzealous editor misunderstanding what Hattersley actually wrote, and turning the claim false in the process
*An old version of the article which was oversighted - but I have checked the oversight logs and personally found nothing... although I would like to have this confirmed by others, more experienced than I in oversight log checking
*An innocent error on the part of Mr. Hattersley based on a faulty memory of the claim being made on the other Hattersley's page - though people seem to have adequately checked up on this as well
*An innocent error on the part of Mr. Hattersley based on a faulty memory of the claim being made on some completely unrelated website (who knows, only he can help to shed light on that)
.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:57, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
*An overzealous editor misunderstanding what Hattersley actually wrote, and turning the claim false in the process
*An old version of the article which was oversighted - but I have checked the oversight logs and personally found nothing... although I would like to have this confirmed by others, more experienced than I in oversight log checking
*An innocent error on the part of Mr. Hattersley based on a faulty memory of the claim being made on the other Hattersley's page - though people seem to have adequately checked up on this as well
*An innocent error on the part of Mr. Hattersley based on a faulty memory of the claim being made on some completely unrelated website (who knows, only he can help to shed light on that)
.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 21:57, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Gerard probably oversighted it because of newspaper trolling.....
The comments under the original Telegraph story tell us more--
but only between the lines.
You can tell a bloody English twit when you see things like
The commentor "Neurolysis" smells a bit like Gerard. Even sticks foot in mouth.
(Yeah, I know there's a relatively-new WP editor named Neurolysis. Even has a blog.
And he/she spends most time creating accounts and patrolling, and diddling PNG images. Very strange.)
Whoever, Neurolysis has been posting a series of WP page links, calculated to display the evil of Giano.
Death to that naughty Giano. He must be punished.
And as usual, the Kohser is on the case.....
Golly, Jimbo! I can't see why Hattersley would lie about that WP article about him.
But we know for a fact that you have lied many, many times in the past.
This whole thing obviously stinks of a pathetic attempt to "punish" Hattersley, for writing an
editorial that wasn't 100% Jimbo-love. So one of the toadies tried to make it "disappear"--
and screwed it up.
It would be nice if Giano would come back and explain his take on this.
but only between the lines.
You can tell a bloody English twit when you see things like
QUOTE
That is what wikipedia should be about! but alas the Few pompous idiots from the US like to Rule!
...remember, some of the worst WP admins are Brits.The commentor "Neurolysis" smells a bit like Gerard. Even sticks foot in mouth.
(Yeah, I know there's a relatively-new WP editor named Neurolysis. Even has a blog.
And he/she spends most time creating accounts and patrolling, and diddling PNG images. Very strange.)
Whoever, Neurolysis has been posting a series of WP page links, calculated to display the evil of Giano.
Death to that naughty Giano. He must be punished.
And as usual, the Kohser is on the case.....
Golly, Jimbo! I can't see why Hattersley would lie about that WP article about him.
But we know for a fact that you have lied many, many times in the past.
This whole thing obviously stinks of a pathetic attempt to "punish" Hattersley, for writing an
editorial that wasn't 100% Jimbo-love. So one of the toadies tried to make it "disappear"--
and screwed it up.
It would be nice if Giano would come back and explain his take on this.
I found a reference on the Palimpsest forums, dated Jan. 15, 2007, (falsely) suggesting that Giles Hattersley is Roy Hattersley's son:
http://www.palimpsest.org.uk/forum/showpos...71&postcount=77
For context, Roy Hattersley (T-H-L-K-D) is, or was, a UK Labour Party politician who was mostly active in the 70's and 80's. There was no reference to Giles Hattersley in any of the Jan. 15 versions of that article on WP, but the person who posted that might have gotten the false notion from some website or other...
Regardless, it's hard to imagine they'd try to oversight something like that - too many people have old backups of the WP database. I doubt it would be on any of the CD-ROM's, but even so, it would be too easy to show they were covering it up, and for no legitimate reason - Hattersley doesn't seem to be all that litigious, and he wouldn't have much of a case in any event.
http://www.palimpsest.org.uk/forum/showpos...71&postcount=77
For context, Roy Hattersley (T-H-L-K-D) is, or was, a UK Labour Party politician who was mostly active in the 70's and 80's. There was no reference to Giles Hattersley in any of the Jan. 15 versions of that article on WP, but the person who posted that might have gotten the false notion from some website or other...
Regardless, it's hard to imagine they'd try to oversight something like that - too many people have old backups of the WP database. I doubt it would be on any of the CD-ROM's, but even so, it would be too easy to show they were covering it up, and for no legitimate reason - Hattersley doesn't seem to be all that litigious, and he wouldn't have much of a case in any event.
QUOTE(Derktar @ Sun 8th February 2009, 5:20pm) 
QUOTE
Feb 8, 17:07 Giano II
Feb 8, 17:05 Giano II
Feb 8, 17:05 CharlotteWebb
Feb 8, 16:31 Skomorokh (accessdates)
Feb 8, 17:05 Giano II
Feb 8, 17:05 CharlotteWebb
Feb 8, 16:31 Skomorokh (accessdates)
So, does this mean Skomorokh edited this then-non-existent article before Giano was
supposed to have created it? Or is the history just so heavily oversighted that it's
impossible to tell what happened?
Another interesting thing about this little story:
Skomorokh has also been messing with the article
about the Ottawa Panhandler's Union.
Which directly relates to this thread.
Makes me wonder: Is Skomorokh a sock for someone important?
Guy, perhaps?
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 8th February 2009, 9:45pm)
what on earth is going on?
Jimbo's gossamer grasp of reality is wearing thinner by the day. His obscene hatchet jobs and vituperations get increasingly more bizarre, and the "encyclopedia that anyone can edit" becomes a shallow mantra, a sound-bite! Perhaps Jimbo should be blocked for a week for misuse of the tools.
QUOTE(trenton @ Mon 9th February 2009, 8:59am)
Gerard probably oversighted it because of newspaper trolling.....
David Gerard has not oversighted anything related to this, based on my checking back as far as March 2008.
I've quickly reviewed the last month of the oversight log, and there is no use of oversight that looks vaguely related, and definitely none on articles titled "Giles Hattersley" or "Roy Hattersley", which means there really truly was never an article by that title.
It is interesting that this missing page has had a steady stream of views each month, with 8 views in May 08. The only incoming link that appears to have existed prior to this mess is from British Press Award 2006, which states that he received the "Young Journalist of the Year" award, but that fact is unreferenced and was not included in the (now deleted) "Giles Hattersley" article.
QUOTE(jayvdb @ Mon 9th February 2009, 6:19am)
It is interesting that this missing page has had a steady stream of views each month, with 8 views in May 08. The only incoming link that appears to have existed prior to this mess is from British Press Award 2006, which states that he received the "Young Journalist of the Year" award, but that fact is unreferenced and was not included in the (now deleted) "Giles Hattersley" article.
Actually it says he was nominated for the award. He didn't win. ~~~~
Drama levels at a high - it seems Hattersley has some blog in which a spokesman is supposedly 'spitting bile' all over the place.
Why is it that even the most minor incident at Wikipedia (and this is really trivial, surely) gets turned into a raging inferno within minutes?
The Telegraph blog where this is supposed to be happening is here
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/shane_richmon...wikipedia_entry
Why is it that even the most minor incident at Wikipedia (and this is really trivial, surely) gets turned into a raging inferno within minutes?
QUOTE
Giano: don't. You're in the right. Jimbo's reaction is unhelpful, if not hysterical. It is ill-advised, at best, and seems to prove again that the best label these days for Jimbo is less "god-king" and more Jimbo ðe unræd. That David Gerard or FT2 is all over the blog making a tangle of his argument and spitting bile at everyone who dares question him only ensures that he is unreadable and unbelievable. It's phenomenal that "Neurolysis" would try to air his private grievances of Wikipedia editors in public on a newspaper blog, but is also a solid gold proof that he's irrelevant and not the "spokesman for Wikipedia" that he wants to be. (Also, it seems that he's a Thalidomide baby, as he says, in the newspaper blog, that you have a "block log as long as his arm," and deformation is the only way that could be true.) You were in the right. Jimbo acted irrationally, and probably on the bad advice of a Spokesman for Wikipedia who lives in the UK. All the chatter is self-immolating junk. Shrug and ignore. Geogre (talk) 11:03, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
The Telegraph blog where this is supposed to be happening is here
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/shane_richmon...wikipedia_entry
QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 9th February 2009, 11:19am)
Drama levels at a high - it seems Hattersley has some blog in which a spokesman is supposedly 'spitting bile' all over the place.
Why is it that even the most minor incident at Wikipedia (and this is really trivial, surely) gets turned into a raging inferno within minutes?
QUOTE
Giano: don't. You're in the right. Jimbo's reaction is unhelpful, if not hysterical. It is ill-advised, at best, and seems to prove again that the best label these days for Jimbo is less "god-king" and more Jimbo ðe unræd. That David Gerard or FT2 is all over the blog making a tangle of his argument and spitting bile at everyone who dares question him only ensures that he is unreadable and unbelievable. It's phenomenal that "Neurolysis" would try to air his private grievances of Wikipedia editors in public on a newspaper blog, but is also a solid gold proof that he's irrelevant and not the "spokesman for Wikipedia" that he wants to be. (Also, it seems that he's a Thalidomide baby, as he says, in the newspaper blog, that you have a "block log as long as his arm," and deformation is the only way that could be true.) You were in the right. Jimbo acted irrationally, and probably on the bad advice of a Spokesman for Wikipedia who lives in the UK. All the chatter is self-immolating junk. Shrug and ignore. Geogre (talk) 11:03, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
The Telegraph blog where this is supposed to be happening is here
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/shane_richmon...wikipedia_entry
Would it be impertinent to suggest - yet again - that if Geogre, Giano, FT2 and David Gerard fucked off and left Wikipedia alone, it would be a far saner, healthier place?
Then again, who are we to rail against the evils of Wikipedia, when they do such a good job of eating themselves anyway? Let them carry on!
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