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Kato
http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2009/03/..._present_th.php

QUOTE(Nicholas Carr)
No, I think it's Jean Baudrillard, dead two years ago this month, who has to be our designated seer. I've never been much of a fan of the French postmodernists or postpostmodernists. When I read them I feel like an inchworm watching a butterfly. Whatever element they exist in is not mine. But it's the nature of prophetic speech to become more lucid as time passes, and that, for me, is what's happening with Baudrillard's words. Take the following passage from a series of lectures he gave, in California, in May of 1999 (collected in the book The Vital Illusion), in which he limns our era:

Ecstasy of the social: the masses. More social than the social.

Ecstasy of information: simulation. Truer than true.

Ecstasy of time: real time, instantaneity. More present than the present.

Ecstasy of the real: the hyperreal. More real than the real.

Ecstasy of sex: porn. More sexual than sex ...

Thus, freedom has been obliterated, liquidated by liberation; truth has been supplanted by verification; the community has been liquidated and absorbed by communication ... Everywhere we see a paradoxical logic: the idea is destroyed by its own realization, by its own excess. And in this way history itself comes to an end, finds itself obliterated by the instantaneity and omnipresence of the event.

If a clearer depiction of realtime exists, I have not come upon it in my inchworm meanderings.

GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 3:13am) *

http://www.roughtype.com/archives/2009/03/..._present_th.php

QUOTE(Nicholas Carr)
No, I think it's Jean Baudrillard, dead two years ago this month, who has to be our designated seer. I've never been much of a fan of the French postmodernists or postpostmodernists. When I read them I feel like an inchworm watching a butterfly. Whatever element they exist in is not mine. But it's the nature of prophetic speech to become more lucid as time passes, and that, for me, is what's happening with Baudrillard's words. Take the following passage from a series of lectures he gave, in California, in May of 1999 (collected in the book The Vital Illusion), in which he limns our era:

Ecstasy of the social: the masses. More social than the social.

Ecstasy of information: simulation. Truer than true.

Ecstasy of time: real time, instantaneity. More present than the present.

Ecstasy of the real: the hyperreal. More real than the real.

Ecstasy of sex: porn. More sexual than sex ...

Thus, freedom has been obliterated, liquidated by liberation; truth has been supplanted by verification; the community has been liquidated and absorbed by communication ... Everywhere we see a paradoxical logic: the idea is destroyed by its own realization, by its own excess. And in this way history itself comes to an end, finds itself obliterated by the instantaneity and omnipresence of the event.

If a clearer depiction of realtime exists, I have not come upon it in my inchworm meanderings.



Hey Moulton (or whoever) briefly enlighten me on Post Modernism. I would expect it would mean "a view point that arises after the bloom is off the rose of modernity and the limits of what it might achieve is revealed." But it seems to have some artsy-fartsy meaning not covered by that definition. I could look it up on Wikipedia but I'm trying to give up slumming and asking someone who probably knows might be a refreshing use of social media. Also I'm not interest in what episode of Futurama Camus makes a cameo appearance.
Kato
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 3:13pm) *

Hey Moulton (or whoever) briefly enlighten me on Post Modernism. I would expect it would mean "a view point that arises after the bloom is off the rose of modernity and the limits of what it might achieve is revealed." But it seems to have some artsy-fartsy meaning not covered by that definition. I could look it up on Wikipedia but I'm trying to give up slumming and asking someone who probably knows might be a refreshing use of social media. Also I'm not interest in what episode of Futurama Camus makes a cameo appearance.

Here is my effort at a simple explanation, from the archives:

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=96589
GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 10:12am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 3:13pm) *

Hey Moulton (or whoever) briefly enlighten me on Post Modernism. I would expect it would mean "a view point that arises after the bloom is off the rose of modernity and the limits of what it might achieve is revealed." But it seems to have some artsy-fartsy meaning not covered by that definition. I could look it up on Wikipedia but I'm trying to give up slumming and asking someone who probably knows might be a refreshing use of social media. Also I'm not interest in what episode of Futurama Camus makes a cameo appearance.

Here is my effort at a simple explanation, from the archives:

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=96589


Thanks. Moulton will join in when his egg-timer permits. The architectural illustration was interesting. I get the sense they leaned down the structure and then added baubles when displeased with the stark effect.
Kato
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 4:26pm) *

QUOTE(Kato @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 10:12am) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 3:13pm) *

Hey Moulton (or whoever) briefly enlighten me on Post Modernism. I would expect it would mean "a view point that arises after the bloom is off the rose of modernity and the limits of what it might achieve is revealed." But it seems to have some artsy-fartsy meaning not covered by that definition. I could look it up on Wikipedia but I'm trying to give up slumming and asking someone who probably knows might be a refreshing use of social media. Also I'm not interest in what episode of Futurama Camus makes a cameo appearance.

Here is my effort at a simple explanation, from the archives:

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=96589


Thanks. Moulton will join in when his egg-timer permits. The architectural illustration was interesting. I get the sense they leaned down the structure and then added baubles when displeased with the stark effect.

A Postmodernist may believe that the world is a collage of impossible to discern fragments. So to them, the "added baubles" are the structure.

Postmodernism can be something that is overtly self referential. The most obvious Postmodern cases in Wikipedia's history are those episodes when Wikipedia errors are re-published in a "reliable source" as fact. Then those sources are quoted in future Wikipedia debates to reassert the fact.

Just as Postmodern architects overtly referred to previous architectural styles in their designs, creating what they would call a "dialogue" between those styles to create a new structure, the media began to do the same. Thus creating an ironic internal spiral, where nobody knows what is true or real anymore. But in the Postmodern world, that doesn't matter, those phony "added baubles" themselves have value.
Moulton
The 20th Century was notable for the variety of new media that it fostered: Radio, Motion Pictures, Television, Electronic Music Synthesizers, Computer Graphics. Each of these new media attracted creative artists who crafted masterworks in the new media.

Similarly in architecture, there were new materials (e.g. glass and steel to supplant bricks and mortar) that gave rise to modern skyscrapers and the Golden Gate Bridge.

Transportation technologies gave us sleek automobiles, streamliners, jet planes, and spacecraft in which form followed function.

But what happens after the architects and artists reach the pinnacle of expression in any new medium?

How many times can you watch "the best motion picture ever made"?

Eventually we become bored with perfection.

Where do we go from there?

Post-modernism is like post-perfectionism. It's the inevitable reaction to the inability to top the best of their breed. So post-modern artists and architects add back some whimsy, some self-referential self-mocking to relieve the boring lack of humor in otherwise perfectionist expression of the serious masters that preceded them.

Popular culture is inherently self-reflective, self-referential, and (eventually) self-mocking.

A new medium has reached maturity when it can laugh at itself without gnashing its teeth over narcissistic wounding that flies into narcissistic rage. Post-modern comedians like Borat, Jon Stewart, and Stephen Colbert show us how to elevate the inane rant to an art form.
GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Moulton @ Sun 22nd March 2009, 11:37am) *



How many times can you watch "the best motion picture ever made"?



I find this very interesting in terms of immediately available media. Years ago I noted that the only videos with any value to own were music videos. The value of music videos seems to re-charge dependent on some internal state of the viewer. Not so with "the best movies."

It was once worthwhile to watch a good movie on broadcast television, even if you saw it before, because you could not control when you might otherwise have the opportunity. Owning a VHS or later a DVD of a movie acted in a funny way to devalue it. If you could watch a movie at any time there was never a good time to watch it after you had seen it once. Now having access to just about any movie "on demand" at any time further erodes the value to not just movies I happen to own but all movies. Now the only value in re-watching anything is possibly to view it with new people in order to see their response.
Jon Awbrey
A budget of books that I found fairly readable when I was studying Post-Modern Ideas back in the '90s:
  • Bernstein, Richard J. (1991), The New Constellation : The Ethical-Political Horizons of Modernity/Postmodernity, MIT Press, Cambridge, MA. Excellent book on many scores.
  • Lyotard, Jean-François (1979/1984), The Postmodern Condition : A Report on Knowledge, Geoff Bennington & Brian Massumi (trans.), Fredric Jameson (foreward), University of Minnesota Press, Minneapolis, MN. Considered one of the canonical texts.
  • Rosenau, Pauline Marie (1992), Post-Modernism and the Social Sciences : Insights, Inroads, and Intrusions, Princeton University Press, Princeton, NJ.
Jon Awbrey
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