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Somey
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Fri 30th November 2007, 4:49pm) *
What?

Mr. Kohs is referring to Mr. Hochman's tendency to paint, or "tar," all WR members with the same brush, a trait shared by many within the WP admin (and admin-wannabe) community.

So it might not matter to him that it was you, Mr. Miltopia, who referred to Mr. Hochman as a "bastard" - he'll simply say "WR called me a bastard, and Kohs is a prominent member of WR, ergo..."

I know, it sounds ludicrous, but we all know that's exactly what he'll do.
Proabivouac
QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 30th November 2007, 10:40pm) *

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Fri 30th November 2007, 4:35pm) *

... But at least they're considering Jehochman, and I hope they come up with something good. He's a bastard.


I didn't say it, Jonathan! I didn't say it! That's Miltopia, one of "your" own from "your" side!

Greg

Excepting a few bio subjects (= targets), almost everyone here is from Wikipedia. The first thing an outsider would notice is that, far from being Wikipedia's opposite, WR is socially an extension of Wikipedia. Shared characters, shared subject matter, shared disputes, even a shared name. The only respect in which it's not part of Wikipedia is political - the verdicts of ANI and the Arbitration Committee can't reach us here.

One country, two systems.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 30th November 2007, 10:40pm) *

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Fri 30th November 2007, 4:35pm) *

... But at least they're considering Jehochman, and I hope they come up with something good. He's a bastard.


I didn't say it, Jonathan! I didn't say it! That's Miltopia, one of "your" own from "your" side!

Greg

WRONG. According to KOH'S LAW™, all Wikipedia discussions about trolls, vandals, Wikipedia Review and anything distasteful will lead back to you.

You are 'tarred'
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GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Fri 30th November 2007, 4:35pm) *

And he's just prolonged the case! 6 to close, 3 opposed, leaving them just one short of the 4 net votes. Wow, I have never seen such a divisive decision. They are just all over the place. This is fun to watch.w

I as hoping they'd close it off and Giano would shoop right through the burning ring of banning, but Jdforrester wants to "examine Jehochman". I think everyone forgot about him, despite his name appearing in the case. hey ought to get Mercury to, he's as much a meatpuppet if not more, since he's still listening to Durova. But at least they're considering Jehochman, and I hope they come up with something good. He's a bastard.


Divisive is exactly right. Time for Judge Bauder to crack those L-O-V-E/ H-A-T-E knuckles and get down to some serious persuasion. If not he is going to come out of this seriously reduced. The best possible outcome is Fred fails to muscle a "consensus" and Mr. Wales has to directly impose his will against Giano. This would be so damaging I wouldn't be surprised if Wales opted for some incoherent mumbling about "everybody love one another" and walks away in order to cut his losses.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Fri 30th November 2007, 4:35pm) *

FORUM Imagebut Jdforrester wants to "examine Jehochman".


The words "examining Jehochman" gives me a creepy mental picture. unsure.gif

But he's been out of that case for a while now. Offiically. (So please Jon, put your clothes back on)

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Fri 30th November 2007, 4:35pm) *

I think everyone forgot about him, despite his name appearing in the case.
They didn't forg et him. They just claimed he didn't do anything wrong here. Which isn't true, since he was part of wink.gif the list, and he was acting jointly with Durova to cover things up (and attack !! and co.) but who listens to me?
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Fri 30th November 2007, 4:35pm) *

They ought to get Mercury to, he's as much a meatpuppet if not more, since he's still listening to Durova.

Good idea. Let's everyone add people they don't like to the Durova case. Just for fun. And it would prove a point. If they can add random people, for saying things they don't like during this session, they we can too. biggrin.gif

on a less light note, teams of people are lining up to explain to Durova why things weren't just single case incident, and why what happened wasn't procedurally, or morally correct. She still doesn't get it.


QUOTE
Geogre, you keep repeating that my action violated policy. What policy? Policy was silent, and I certainly have wished on many occasions that policy addressed these matters. What happened in practice was that hardly anyone cared as long as my actions were near-perfect, but the moment I made a genuine mistake the storm descended. It didn't matter how quickly I undid the block or how humbly sorry I was for it, or even that I've resigned my administratorship. If Giano's action had been necessary to reverse a block then I'd agree he acted toward some greater good, but that wasn't the case. I'd already acknowledged my error and done all I could to atone for it. Instead my good faith willingness to accept feedback and correction got abused for betrayal and ridicule. DurovaCharge! 00:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


Um. Getting Durova to see anything from an alternate point of view is like... blood from a turnip.FORUM Image
Jonny Cache
Flash !!!

The Impromptu Recognition Committee (IRC) of The Wikipedia Review is pleased to announce the awarding of the «Deep Throat Wiki-Luving Cup for 2007» to Giano.

In addition to the Fabled Trophy that we can't seem to get rid of, the award entitles the winner to a year's free subscription to all of the premium services provided by BomisBÔÔbs.Com.

On B½ Of The IRC,

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 30th November 2007, 8:50pm) *
The Impromptu Recognition Committee (IRC) of The Wikipedia Review is pleased to announce the awarding of the «Deep Throat Wiki-Luving Cup for 2007» to Giano.

Is that link supposed to work? There's a copy of the lyrics to "In the Year 2525" by Zager and Evans at http://www.frodisman.com/2525.html, but I don't see what that has to do with Deep Throat, loving cups, or even 2007.

I'm probably missing something really obvious...
Mndrew
There should be a MIDI playing in the background.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 1st December 2007, 12:40am) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 30th November 2007, 8:50pm) *

The Impromptu Recognition Committee (IRC) of The Wikipedia Review is pleased to announce the awarding of the «Deep Throat Wiki-Luving Cup for 2007» to Giano.


Is that link supposed to work? There's a copy of the lyrics to "In the Year 2525" by Zager and Evans at http://www.frodisman.com/2525.html, but I don't see what that has to do with Deep Throat, loving cups, or even 2007.

I'm probably missing something really obvious …


Okay, it's really a LavaLampâ„¢. It's been gathering dust in the warehouse since way before the Nostry Award. And then we tried to dump it on Durova on the spur-of-the-moment pretense of a phony sting-type contest, but she was too smart to show up in person. Then some joker from the Academy said that maybe if we called it a LuvingCup we could unload it on yet another wikiwhistleblower of things to come.

Jonny cool.gif
badlydrawnjeff
So now it appears that it swung the other way - any block on Giano is defeated outright, and the four net votes exist to close. Color me very surprised.
GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(badlydrawnjeff @ Sat 1st December 2007, 9:15am) *

So now it appears that it swung the other way - any block on Giano is defeated outright, and the four net votes exist to close. Color me very surprised.


Quite a loss for Bauder.
Miltopia
Yes, he will leave the committee in disgrace now.

DL, I say they should go after Mercury because he made the situation worse, not because I don't like him. He's actually not bad personally, just doesn't have very good judgment. But there's really very little actionable arbcom could do about him...

EDIT: Matthew Brown and FloNight (ugh) have changed to oppose Giano's ban, FloNight specifically to "avoid having to call in a tie-breaker" (hurray for technicalities), so it's at 4-8. jpgordon and Matthew Brown support closing, which is at 8-3, 5 net votes. Looks like it's over.

Anyone else think ArbCom has taken a huge hit among the WP community?
everyking
QUOTE(badlydrawnjeff @ Sat 1st December 2007, 3:15pm) *

So now it appears that it swung the other way - any block on Giano is defeated outright, and the four net votes exist to close. Color me very surprised.


Barring the intervention of Jimbo (which would be so out of line that it might cause the community to seriously reassess his role) or a new case (unlikely to reach any other outcome), it looks like Giano has escaped unscathed. This is tremendous, underscoring the almost revolutionary nature of the whole case, and I think it has to be attributed to overwhelming opposition and pressure from the community, which made it impossible for the ArbCom to decide this case in its usual, comically unjust fashion.
badlydrawnjeff
This is the third relatively recent case, to my knowledge, where there was massive public outcry at the absurdity of ArbCom.

Given that many of the usual suspects actually buckled this time is nothing but good news for those who are still continuing on with the project.

This is going to make elections VERY interesting.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(everyking @ Sat 1st December 2007, 8:54am) *

Barring the intervention of Jimbo (which would be so out of line that it might cause the community to seriously reassess his role) or a new case (unlikely to reach any other outcome), it looks like Giano has escaped unscathed. This is tremendous, underscoring the almost revolutionary nature of the whole case, and I think it has to be attributed to overwhelming opposition and pressure from the community, which made it impossible for the ArbCom to decide this case in its usual, comically unjust fashion.


Ahem.

Don't forget the value of a skillfully placed Wikipedia Review heckle™

As usual, we aren't given credit for anything, whereas you all know that a minimum of 50 Wpedians were over here, breathing in every word, every joke, every DfArbcom Cafepress sale (and every "Wikipedia Justice" video™).

We deserve some credit for helping them to help themselves. wink.gif We know you want to....
Miltopia
It's closed. I was wrong though, a remedy against Giano did pass, the "reminded" one. I didn't realize Paul August had abstained, bringing the majority required for that remedy to 6, which it got.
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 1st December 2007, 8:53am) *

Yes, he will leave the committee in disgrace now.
As well he should. He's made a joke of the Arbcom with his 5th grader's justice practices.

I'm just glad it was so obvious in the last moments, so he left with exactly the reputation he deserves.

QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 1st December 2007, 8:53am) *

Anyone else think ArbCom has taken a huge hit among the WP community?

Actually, they might wind up with a functioning, just Arbcom. On account of how disgustingliy corrupt this one showed itself to be, on the eve of the election. cool.gif
QUOTE(Miltopia @ Sat 1st December 2007, 11:51am) *

It's closed. I was wrong though, a remedy against Giano did pass, the "reminded" one. I didn't realize Paul August had abstained, bringing the majority required for that remedy to 6, which it got.

Reminded is nothing. Everyone knows those Giano remedies were a joke.

VIVA GIANISSIMO!!

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WhispersOfWisdom
QUOTE(badlydrawnjeff @ Sat 1st December 2007, 11:08am) *

This is the third relatively recent case, to my knowledge, where there was massive public outcry at the absurdity of ArbCom.

Given that many of the usual suspects actually buckled this time is nothing but good news for those who are still continuing on with the project.

This is going to make elections VERY interesting.


I do not think so.

The ending discussion showed me that Arbcom. really is a non-event in the grand scheme of things. It appears to be a kangaroo court at best with virtually no real litigation and no foundation in any real law. ANYWHERE. The sad part is, Jimbo and the rest of the players there really believe the rest of the world look at them with admiration. Anyone acting in a real live court system sees WP Arbcom. as a middle school student council type entity. Zero credibilty for the outside real live world. They are really quite... wacko.gif
Disillusioned Lackey
Did anyone else notice that !! put this link on his talk page, about the case of Nathaniel Ames?

QUOTE
Ames’ wife had owned a tavern and the situation gave rise to Ames v. Gay, one of the famous lawsuits of New England. Ames (a compulsively litigious man) claimed inheritance to her estate according to the Province law through their son Fisher against his mother-in-law Hannah, who claimed the rights to it under the Common law, a struggle continued by her family after she died in December 1744. In August 1749 Ames won the case, and thus established an exception to the rule of inheritance in Massachusetts. However, two of the eleven Superior Court of Judicature justices were against him, leading the normally amiable Ames to an especially vituperative stance against lawyers for the rest of his career.[9] He took down his tavern sign and replaced it with a cartoon of the judges, all easily identifiable. Each was shown studying the Province laws, except the two dissenters, who had their backs turned to the law books. Chief Justice Paul Dudley, one of the dissenters, sent the sheriff to arrest Ames and confiscate the libelous portrait. Ames was warned and quickly substituted Matt. 16:4: “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it.”
GlassBeadGame
Mongo consoles Durova and prays for a just Good-King to put things right.
Moulton
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sat 1st December 2007, 8:39pm) *
Mongo consoles Durova and prays for a just Good-King to put things right.

Here's the exact quote from Mongo:

QUOTE
I'm more convinced than ever that this project has some fundamental flaws that might take the efforts of a God-King to straighten out.

All that's missing from Mongo's diagnosis is a detailed analysis of the fundamental flaws. It's a toss-up whether a suitable saviour can salvage it.
Fox
QUOTE

It doesn't appear that WE as a community are effectively dealing with drama queens, those who misuse the dispute resolution process and other negative influences.


Is that him talking about what he sees as the problem with WP, or is he talking about himself as MONGO?
Amarkov
Well, now even more people dislike Arbcom. At the rate we're going, by next year's elections, the only ones left supporting it will be five newbies and a dead fish. Maybe sooner, depending on what happens over the next weeks.
GlassBeadGame
QUOTE(Moulton @ Sat 1st December 2007, 8:50pm) *

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sat 1st December 2007, 8:39pm) *
Mongo consoles Durova and prays for a just Good-King to put things right.

Here's the exact quote from Mongo:

QUOTE
I'm more convinced than ever that this project has some fundamental flaws that might take the efforts of a God-King to straighten out.

All that's missing from Mongo's diagnosis is a detailed analysis of the fundamental flaws. It's a toss-up whether a suitable saviour can salvage it.


But the God-King answers not. The God-King demands blood sacrifice. Where is Giano's blood?
Disillusioned Lackey
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sat 1st December 2007, 8:39pm) *


But the God-Kings answers not. The God-King demands blood sacrifice. Where is Giano's blood?

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guy
Let's start a "Somey for God-King" movement.
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