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Somey
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Wed 11th October 2006, 11:27am) *
There is no evidence of any "spookiness" outside of the Lockerbie matter over a decade ago and that is easily explained through her self appointed status as the representatives of "the families"....

Actually, there may be an even more practical explanation than that. Remember that Lockerbie, in addition to being a tragedy, was a huge news story - with most of the coverage based right there in Lockerbie, a small town in Scotland. Why is this significant, you ask?

I'll tell you!

When the broadcast-news folks cover a major story in a remote location, they converge on that location. Dozens, even hundreds of news people show up. Lockerbie would have been one of those stories. When this happens (especially back in the 80's and earlier, before everything got miniaturized), the press people set up a "pool." This is basically a giant campsite, filled with all the trailers that can be found for rent in the surrounding area, where all of the participating news organizations get together to arrange for toilet facilities, electricity, food services, and so on - various things that people generally need during the course of the day. There are people who have full-time jobs arranging these things, but the pool also hires lots of locals to act as go-fers, or "runners." If there aren't a lot of locals around (as would be the case in Lockerbie), the search for runners is expanded to include people like college students who just sort of show up, looking for something to do - and maybe also looking to impress someone in the news biz enough to get themselves hired on permanently.

Now, given that Lockerbie is, indeed, a small town in Scotland, there's nothing for the press folks to do there in their off-hours, other than hang out with each other at the local pub (assuming they're even made welcome there) and have impromptu parties in their trailers. Most of the support people are male, between 25 and 40, and in this case probably unmarried - since it wouldn't exactly be a "plum" assignment, so far away from civilization and all its many comforts. CITATION REQUIRED So the arrival in such a remote location of a slim, ostensibly virginal CITATION REQUIRED, 20-ish female Canadian co-ed, perhaps devastated (at first) by the loss of a short-term boyfriend but definitely quite interested in a journalism career CITATION REQUIRED, would certainly not be ignored by these guys. In fact, they'd be all over her like a cheap suit. CITATION REQUIRED

This, to me, is the most likely scenario as to how Slimmy got into broadcast journalism. From there, who knows...? The news business opens doors. But ultimately, I suspect her personality and deviousness finally pissed off too many of the wrong people, and - D'OH! - back to Canada she went! CITATION REQUIRED If she managed to score some settlement money from the Lockerbie victims' fund CITATION REQUIRED, so much the easier for her, really - in that case it would be even more likely that she'd be willing to say "take this job and shove it" to any employer who crossed her CITATION REQUIRED during those years.

QUOTE
...Remember Robert Hansen, the FBI turncoat? He arranged for drops to take place in the park across the street from his home. That would seem foolish, until you consider any visual monitoring of the park by suspicious spook-hunters would naturally take place from Hansen's own living room...

Apropos of nothing whatsoever, here's an interesting bit of no-doubt unrelated trivia: Robert Hansen graduated from the same college that gave Jimbo his very first honorary degree last year.
Jonny Cache
And the award for Creative Writing in an Airstream goes to ...

I'm so jealous -- they never give it to us SF (Sigismundo Frodo) genrists ...

Jonny cool.gif
guy
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 13th October 2006, 5:49am) *

So the arrival in such a remote location of a slim, ostensibly virginal, 20-ish female Canadian co-ed, perhaps devastated (at first) by the loss of a short-term boyfriend but definitely quite interested in a journalism career, would certainly not be ignored by these guys. In fact, they'd be all over her like a cheap suit.

Are you suggesting that she ceased to deserve her name? ohmy.gif
Somey
QUOTE(guy @ Fri 13th October 2006, 8:39am) *
Are you suggesting that she ceased to deserve her name? ohmy.gif

Of course not! Nothing of the sort! I mean, that's between her and her priest, right?

All I'm saying is that these guys will make promises of introductions, if not outright job offers, to young female runners. I've seen it with my own two eyes. (I'd say where, but, uh, no need for that really.) Just ask any honest broadcast journalist... Still, I would never, ever want to imply that Slimmy had ever had intimate relations with anyone, at any time, anywhere. Why, I shudder to think of it. My God man, the implications!

I should also point out that there are also a lot of people at these pool-coverage locations who are sincere, helpful, and looking for trustworthy young talent. Slimmy is certainly a good writer, and by all accounts expresses herself quite well in at least two different accents. In fact, since she's Canadian, she probably speaks French, too, and could probably do a passable French accent in English if necessary, probably even without it coming off as... you know, Inspector Clouseau-esque.
guy
It still seems to me a violation of WP:NOR. I hope that you are not saying that WP:IAR applies; if so, I may initiate an RfC. (That would stand me in good stead for my RfA.) Please in future observe WP:V, heedful of WP:RS and WP:NPOV. And use the <ref> </ref> format for WP:V.
Somey
QUOTE(guy @ Fri 13th October 2006, 10:01am) *
It still seems to me a violation of WP:NOR. I hope that you are not saying that WP:IAR applies; if so, I may initiate an RfC. (That would stand me in good stead for my RfA.) Please in future observe WP:V, heedful of WP:RS and WP:NPOV. And use the <ref> </ref> format for WP:V.

Oh, all right... But Jeez, it's not like I spilled the beans over her key role in the infamous "Seabrook Affair."
guy
QUOTE(Joey @ Fri 13th October 2006, 4:36pm) *

That 103 became a driving interest for her seems plausible, but that it started as a result of schmoozing in a news camp seems somewhat fanciful speculation.

I agree that Somey is speculating, but his thesis is that her entr??e to journalism came via that route, not her interest in 103.
TabulaRasa
QUOTE(guy @ Fri 13th October 2006, 12:54pm) *

I agree that Somey is speculating, but his thesis is that her entrée to journalism came via that route, not her interest in 103.

Wrong end of the telescope, guys.

Her entrée to journalism was her obsession with 103.

Her entrée to espionage was her blinding obsession with being bigger than circumstances actually allow for.

Her entrée to Wikipedia was her obsession with 103.

Her entrée to SlimVirginity was her blinding obsession with being bigger than circumstances actually allow for.
IronDuke
And while you guys are wanking over dubious espionage stories, Slim is peripatetically writing WP:Attribution, which rewrites and eliminates all the major Wikipedia policies concerning article sourcing (WP:V, WP:RS, etc).
guy
QUOTE(IronDuke @ Fri 13th October 2006, 7:30pm) *

Slim is peripatetically writing WP:Attribution, which rewrites and eliminates all the major Wikipedia policies concerning article sourcing (WP:V, WP:RS, etc).

I think that's a slight exaggeration.
Somey
QUOTE(TabulaRasa @ Fri 13th October 2006, 12:45pm) *
Her entrée to journalism was her obsession with 103.

Her entrée to espionage was her blinding obsession with being bigger than circumstances actually allow for.

I'm not saying you're wrong, necessarily, but if it's 1988 and I walk into the main offices of ABC News in Washington, DC, and ask for a job, and they ask me what my qualifications are, and I say "well, I'm obsessed with the bombing of Flight 103 over Lockerbie," are they going to hire me on that basis alone? Probably not. I know that's a sophistic argument, but there had to be people who were met, introductions made, schmoozing, friends of friends, something that got her foot in the door. Organizations like ABC News don't just hire anybody who shows up, no matter how qualified they are. They certainly didn't hire me back in the early 80's, when Robert Roy interviewed me there. If they had, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be sitting here now, typing this.

This may seem like idle speculation, and yeah, it probably is. All I'm trying to do is come up with a plausible explanation for Slimmy's decision to go into journalism that doesn't involve international spying.

By the way, there's a difference between "pool coverage" and a "location pool." I was referring to the latter - I've been personally involved in one big one and one small one, and that's just what they call it (or at least they did back in the mid-80's). If multiple TV networks from all over Europe and the US converged on a small town and all made completely separate arrangements for everything, it would be a logistical nightmare for everyone concerned!
Somey
QUOTE(IronDuke @ Fri 13th October 2006, 1:30pm) *
And while you guys are wanking over dubious espionage stories, Slim is peripatetically writing WP:Attribution, which rewrites and eliminates all the major Wikipedia policies concerning article sourcing (WP:V, WP:RS, etc).

On the contrary - when I deal with dubious espionage stories, I very scrupulously keep my hands well away from that, uh... particular area.

I actually mentioned this policy rewrite thing back here, though it was in a different context. So why do you think Slimmy is doing that? For all we know, it could be from a genuine desire to make the policy more coherent and understandable. More likely it's part of an equally dubious campaign to win allies from among the "process is evil" crowd, even while she's taking personal control of a vitally important policy in order to serve her personal interests.

Or, she could just be doing it to pass the time while she waits for her latest order of doggie treats from Harrod's. It's anybody's guess, I suppose...
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(IronDuke @ Fri 13th October 2006, 2:30pm) *

And while you guys are wanking over dubious espionage stories, Slim is peripatetically writing WP:Attribution, which rewrites and eliminates all the major Wikipedia policies concerning article sourcing (WP:V, WP:RS, etc).



I been telling you that since the day I got here.

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 13th October 2006, 4:40pm) *
I been telling you that since the day I got here.

Okay, but are we just assuming that since Slimmy is doing it, it must by necessity be nefarious? Nobody seems to want to propose an underlying motive, other than me saying it's part of her ongoing effort to gain allies and grasp at more control.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 13th October 2006, 5:46pm) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Fri 13th October 2006, 4:40pm) *
I been telling you that since the day I got here.


Okay, but are we just assuming that since Slimmy is doing it, it must by necessity be nefarious? Nobody seems to want to propose an underlying motive, other than me saying it's part of her ongoing effort to gain allies and grasp at more control.



It's not just SlimVirgin. There's a major contingent of the ASOTAC involved -- (note to self : quote that line from the Terminator here). It's nefarious because it's neFARious. It nullifies what little obligation WP ever even pretended to have to the POV that believes in Facts And Reasons, and nudges them ever closer to barefaced WP:FUCT and WP:TSAR.

Time for <nowiki>TGIF !!!</nowiki>

Jonny cool.gif
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Joey @ Fri 13th October 2006, 8:55pm) *

QUOTE(guy @ Fri 13th October 2006, 7:36pm) *

QUOTE(IronDuke @ Fri 13th October 2006, 7:30pm) *

Slim is peripatetically writing WP:Attribution, which rewrites and eliminates all the major Wikipedia policies concerning article sourcing (WP:V, WP:RS, etc).


I think that's a slight exaggeration.


It's a reasonably accurate paraphrase of SlimVirgin's first message on the Wikipedia:Attribution talk page where she proposed "getting rid of WP:V and WP:NOR as policies".

QUOTE(slimvirigin @ 11 October 2006, 4:39pm)

"I've put up a proposal that would involve getting rid of WP:V and WP:NOR as policies...

I propose:

WP:V be deleted
WP:NOR become ... (not a policy or guideline)
WP:RS be renamed ... (not a policy or guideline)
WP:CITE ... that everything in it that discusses why we need sources be removed."


Now, the meta problem here is that SlimVirgin is making herself the central arbiter of what may or may not be included in Wikimedia sites. She "put up" the proposal, presumed consensus and went about revising and preparing to delete policies. Has there been a vote, or even a link from the policy development page to where she "put up a proposal?" Note that on none of the policy pages she proposes for deletion is there a notice advising regular visitors to those pages of the impending take-over. Once Slim has gone about presuming that her act of creating her proposed page comprises consensus, she will no doubt nominate the targeted policy pages for deletion, based on a consensus she will declare to have already been reached.

The particular problems of her revisions include new policies that would allow Chip Barlett to attribute his original research, under a new attribution policy, without coming up against the nagging ghost of the "no original research" policy. He administers an advocacy group that has a publishing house, which publishes his research. Then he visits Wikimedia sites and attributes his publishing house as the source of his research, bypassing the fact that he is the author citing his own research and that he slanted the research to support his political agenda.

This might seem innocuous because it is more or less already policy. Wales has already decided which original researchers can be treated as in-house experts and which are to be excluded as vanity authors. SV's actions are little more than consolidation of her authority to administer these decisions on a day-to-day basis.


Again, what's going on here is perfectly evident to anybody who was once in the trenches of the battle for the last shreds of the original soul of Wikipedia. When I sober up I will try to 'splain it to ya 1 more time. In the mean time -- and I do mean the mean time -- you might test your Where's Dildo? acumen on the Big Picture of -- I hope it's still there -- the Rise and Fall of the WP:NOR Reich that I put here:There is some play-by-play here:The fact that I and several others objected to this utter degradation of WP quality control is the one and only real reason that I got run out of WP, and the others all got threatened with the x-ample of my x-communication.

You need to wake up and realize that there is something bigger going on here than the foibles of one imaginary virgin.

Jonny cool.gif
Jonny Cache
Let me draw your attention once again to the innovations that the ASOTAC has recently inserted by force majeure into the Policy of WP:NOR, specifically:

QUOTE
Articles which draw predominantly on primary sources are generally discouraged, in favor of articles based predominantly on secondary sources.


and

QUOTE
Although most articles should rely predominantly on secondary sources, there are relatively rare occasions when they may rely entirely on primary sources (for example, current events or Braunfeld v. Brown). An article or section of an article that relies on primary source should (1) only make descriptive claims the accuracy of which is easily verifiable by any reasonable adult without specialist knowledge, and (2) make no analytic, synthetic, interpretive, explanatory, or evaluative claims. Contributors drawing on entirely primary sources should be exceptionally careful to comply with both conditions.


The idea that secondary sources should be preferred to primary sources is a wholly ludicrous notion to any professional reporter or responsible scholar. Whether it comes from novice ignorance, sinister intent, or the utter indolence of an unschooled pundit who is too lazy to go to a library much less invest effort in difficult books by the seminal (or ovular) authors in a given subject area, this sort of rule can do nothing but degrade the quality of every article to which it is applied.

Jonny cool.gif
Jonny Cache
Yes, I've commented on this WikiProlix passage elsewhere. It's a policy most aptly summed up in the motto:
  • WP:NOR means never having to use your own brain in the slightest.
There are all sorts of folks who would like us to get in the habit of that.

Some of this may be an attempt to interpret the parables of Chairman Jimbo, for instance, this one:

QUOTE
The phrase "original research" in this context refers to untested theories; data, statements, concepts and ideas that have not been published in a reputable publication; or any new interpretation, analysis, or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts or ideas that, in the words of Wikipedia's founder Jimbo Wales, would amount to a "novel narrative or historical interpretation".


There is also the hedge about "no analysis or synthesis designed to support a position" that periodically gets added to and subtracted from the mix.

But we have to be careful here, as there has been a whole lot of "let's see if we can find some old email of Jimbo or Larry that will pre-establish the harmony of our heart's desire this week".

Jonny cool.gif
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Joey @ Fri 13th October 2006, 5:55pm) *

The particular problems of her revisions include new policies that would allow Chip Barlett to attribute his original research, under a new attribution policy, without coming up against the nagging ghost of the "no original research" policy. He administers an advocacy group that has a publishing house, which publishes his research. Then he visits Wikimedia sites and attributes his publishing house as the source of his research, bypassing the fact that he is the author citing his own research and that he slanted the research to support his political agenda.

This might seem innocuous because it is more or less already policy.


True. The ArbCom gave CBerlet the coveted double-0 licence to use Original Research, in the "LaRouche 2" and "Nobs01 and Others" cases.
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