Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: A new SlimVirgin smoking gun
> Wikimedia Discussion > Editors > Notable editors > SlimVirgin
Pages: 1, 2
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE
Dear Daniel Brandt:

After the Panam 103 Lockerbie bombing disaster in December 1988, when I was based in London as an investigative and radio reporter for ABC News, Pierre Salinger (then London bureau chief for ABC) and I hired Linda Mack, then a grad student at Cambridge to help in the investigation. She claimed to have lost a friend/lover on pan103 and so was anxious to clear up the mystery. ABC News paid for her travel and expenses as well as a salary.

Notable was a trip she made to Damascus (where Salinger and I both touched down, among many other places during our year's investigation), where she wanted to interview Ahmed Jibril of the PFLP-GC, then a prime suspect. He wouldn't talk to her. Later, after we had been working with Jordanian intelligence, she befriended one of their officers who came to London to ferret out Abu Nidal's bank accounts. Once the two Libyan suspects were indicted, she seemed to try to point the investigation in the direction of Qaddafi, although there was plenty of evidence, both before and after the trials of Maghrebi and Fhima in the Netherlands, that others were involved, probably with Iran the commissioning power.

I was no longer based in London when it happened, but in 1991-92, after Salinger had traveled to Tripoli and successfully interviewed the two Libyan suspects (before their move to Netherlands), Special Branch of Scotland Yard demanded all of our tapes (including those not broadcast). Salinger came to believe that Linda was working for MI5 and had been from the beginning; assigned genuinely to investigate Panam 103, but also to infiltrate and monitor us. ABC refused to hand over the tapes and other documents the Brits wanted; Special Branch raided our office and Salinger blamed Linda for this. (At two subsequent trials, ABC lost an expensive court case and had to hand over tapes and documents, none of which contained any conclusive evidence about the Libyans). At this point Salinger fired Linda and locked her out of the office, after she had been spreading some malicious rumors about him.

I never saw her again after leaving London for my new base in Cyrpus in late 1991. I believe she made one phone call to me, but I avoided further communication with her. I don't have any pictures. When I last saw her, Linda was slim, brunette and had a kind of wan beauty, like a heroine in a Charles Adams cartoon or an upgrade horror film. Salinger, of course, has long since gone to the great newsroom in the sky. That's really all I can tell you: other details have faded from my memory. I hope this helps.

Sincerely, John K. Cooley

My conclusions from this:

1) The probability that SlimVirgin / Sarah / Linda is acting on Wikipedia as an agent for an intelligence service has just gone up dramatically.

2) Given the circumstances of Linda Mack's departure from ABC, it is entirely reasonable that she would start using a different name. Moving to Canada and becoming Sarah McEwanmakes sense.

3) There is now enough evidence for Arbcom to invite SlimVirgin to defend herself, and if the defense isn't convincing, to ban SlimVirgin from Wikipedia. Otherwise, Wikipedia's critics are in a position to maintain that the Wikimedia Foundation is harboring an apparent agent of an intelligence service, grants her administrative powers, and protects her identity.
Patrick Byrne
Beautiful work, Dan.

I continue to maintain that I cannot imagine Linda could have ever made it through any kind of rigorous screening process to become an actual MI5 employee, but once she had been hired by Salinger could easily, easily have been coopted (for the same reason she would not have been hired as an actual agent). Small difference.

I agree with Cooley about the wan beauty. He refers to her as "slim" (which he calls out correctly in contradistinction to how she appeared in 1989): when I knew her, she had the potential to be stunning, I suppose.

Wonder what she did in the 1990's? Anyone have ideas? She is not the kind of person who could have lain low.

Patrick
Herschelkrustofsky
I think we've hit paydirt here. SV as Morticia?
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Wed 4th October 2006, 11:15am) *

I think we've hit paydirt here. SV as Morticia?


Nah, Morticia was sweet.

But if this all checks out -- and for my part the Oliver North theory is not yet out of the running -- then it goes a long ways to answer why He/She/Ayesha would be so obsessed with having an artificial dissemination device for distributing disinformation, a tool at the ever ready whose propagators do not stop to check their sources. Wikipedia is a tool custom made for propagandists like that. They could have that well-known Wimp Of Mass Destruction bombing Porchesia back to the Nupedia Age in a Schlock And Awe Schucks attack of the Thousand WP:Pointy Light Brigade, with nobody stopping to reason why.

Jonny cool.gif
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(Patrick Byrne @ Wed 4th October 2006, 9:35am) *

I continue to maintain that I cannot imagine Linda could have ever made it through any kind of rigorous screening process to become an actual MI5 employee, but once she had been hired by Salinger could easily, easily have been coopted (for the same reason she would not have been hired as an actual agent). Small difference.

There is a very rigid distinction between CIA "officer" and CIA "agent" that everyone is careful to maintain in the CIA. An officer is someone who passed pre-employment screening, was formally trained, and when abroad is often found under State Department cover. This cover gives them diplomatic immunity.

The officer's job abroad is to run agents. These agents are paid under the table, and are often nationals of the host country with some sort of special access.

I agree that Linda Mack was too unstable to be an officer in either MI5 or CIA. But once she was working on the PanAm investigation as an ABC reporter out of London, this access would make her very useful as an agent.

SlimVirgin herself doesn't quite grasp this distinction. Back when she and I were the only ones interested in my bio, one year ago this month, she described Philip Agee and Ralph McGehee as "CIA agents." I had to correct her. Those two were CIA officers. SlimVirgin obviously lacks formal intelligence training.
LamontStormstar
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Wed 4th October 2006, 5:49am) *

Wikipedia's critics are in a position to maintain that the Wikimedia Foundation is harboring an apparent agent of an intelligence service, grants her administrative powers, and protects her identity.


Like she's the only one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=46413974


Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Wed 4th October 2006, 8:41am) *

QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Wed 4th October 2006, 11:15am) *

I think we've hit paydirt here. SV as Morticia?


Nah, Morticia was sweet.


Well, how about this as a new placeholder on the HiveMind page:

(reproduction of Charles Addams Morticia drawing redacted)
Daniel Brandt
This just in: Linda Mack called John Cooley yesterday and asked him not to talk to me or help me!

QUOTE
I should emphasize that what I sent you all came from Salinger. Since he was my colleague and boss, I gave it weight, but was never able to verify it from any other or independent source. Mack phoned me Wednesday and asked me not to talk to you or help you. I didn't mention that I already had. Please copy me if you publish anything about her--and don't use my name. The one indisputable fact is that Salinger fired her and had her locked out of the office. I don't wish any further involvement in this. Thanks! John Cooley

Ouch! My reaction: I just got the above email five minutes ago. I will not notify Mr. Cooley that 24 hours ago I posted his first email in full, and I will not send any more email to Mr. Cooley because he is caught in the middle. I did nothing wrong at all. I quoted his first email in full, and as you can see, there is nothing in there about not using his name, or about "not for attribution" or "on background" or "off the record." Anyone who has watched any "B" movies about journalism already knows that the person interviewed has to insist on these conditions before the interview.

And why am I posting this second email from Mr. Cooley? Because the fact that Linda Mack called him means that Linda Mack is SlimVirgin. I'm completely convinced now. When I summarize her career someday I might leave Mr. Cooley out of it, but this last post from him, which once again I am quoting in full, is necessary to make my case. SlimVirgin's move in calling Mr. Cooley was too little, too late, and Wikipedia's critics are better off because of this. Maybe she was too busy screwing people on Wikipedia, and should read this board more often. Or maybe she should take my biography down. Or if she doesn't have the power to do that, then maybe she should think twice about starting biographies on people without their permission.

Maybe she should just leave Wikipedia.
TabulaRasa
For those of us that are intelligence-challenged...
MI5 is the British FBI, right?
But she's hardly advocating for the UK these days...so is the assumption that she turned free agent when that dried up and is now with the CIA? Or just that she left MI5, took a new identity, Swalwell AB address, and spook pension and now just edits all day?
Placeholder
MI5 would be more like the British CIA.
IronDuke
Also of interest: Slim vs. Cyde
QUOTE
Do not continue to make personal attacks against me, on or off wiki. You have spread absurd and dangerous gossip, which ended up damaging other people, though your intention was to damage me, no doubt. I have asked you by e-mail and I am asking you again openly, and very seriously: stop gossiping about me (and others), stop your personal attacks, and stop the agggression. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] 17:27, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

The rats are starting to turn on one another (Cyde is a nasty piece of work, though I have not personally run into him).
Somey
Wow, three "g"'s in "aggression." She must be serious.
poopooball
i jus came to post teh msg on cydes talk. ill bring teh popcorn.
Somey
More hilarity:
QUOTE(SlimVirgin @ 18:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC))
The events of the last few days have shown very clearly that the community, at all levels, has had enough toxicity, and won't support the people who engage in it anymore.

So why are either of them still around?
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 5th October 2006, 12:55pm) *

Wow, three "g"'s in "aggression." She must be serious.

Probably just bad drugggs.
FORUM Image
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 5th October 2006, 5:32am) *

And why am I posting this second email from Mr. Cooley? Because the fact that Linda Mack called him means that Linda Mack is SlimVirgin.


I agree. We have closure now on SV's identity. Now the question remains, why did she crave anonymity? This goes once again to the issue of agentry. Joey's summary of "what is an asset" was fair and comprehensive. I think we now must look once again at some of the nuances of SV's activity, assume that some of her professed ideology is a cover story, and ask the ever-popular question, cui bono?
guy
QUOTE(Joey @ Thu 5th October 2006, 6:34pm) *

QUOTE(TabulaRasa @ Thu 5th October 2006, 5:13pm) *

MI5 is the British FBI, right?


MI5 would be more like the British CIA.

No - MI6 (no hyphen) deals with overseas matters hence is the closest thing to the CIA. We have no one body comparable to the FBI (partly because we have no concept of federal and state laws), but MI5 deals with internal matters.
EuroSceptic
FBI => Scotland Yard

Re SlimVirgin. I do not believe she is an agent. She got a big payment from the PanAm flight, and does not need to work ever again if she uses the monney smart.

If she changed her name legally, there should be court papers about it.
Daniel Brandt
The next step in deconstructing Linda Mack's career might be to locate one Christopher Elliott, who shared a byline with Linda at least once in 1994. This was after she was fired from ABC, and before she split to Canada. There is a different Christopher Elliott at www.elliott.org who has had some pieces in the New York Times. Don't waste your time on him, he's a travel critic. I asked him last June, and he said he's not the person we want.

I have no idea how to zero in on the Christopher Elliot who is sharing a byline with Linda Mack, and cannot find anything online. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone know someone at The Times in London?

I think Linda Mack's career as a respectable journalist was over after Salinger fired her -- at least in the London area. But she may have been able to place a few "strategic" articles in newspapers.

______________________________

Broker fights to clear name over Iran arms case
by Christopher Elliott and Linda Mack

The Times (London), (date redacted) 1994

A FORMER Lloyd's insurance broker begins a High Court battle this morning to clear his name after his conviction in 1988 over an alleged Pounds 18 million fraud involving the sale of 5,000 TOW anti-tank missiles to Iran.

William Harper is seeking leave to appeal against his conviction for issuing certificates of insurance, verifying the existence of missiles, that the prosecution claimed were bogus.

He was one of three men convicted. Two others were acquitted in a trial that has parallels with the Matrix Churchill case; one of the two, John Taylor, a businessman and arms dealer, was an MI6 agent. The judge was told but the information was withheld from the jury.

blah, blah, blah....
_______________________________
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 5th October 2006, 9:31pm) *
blah, blah, blah....


You might want to take a second look at the "blah, blah, blah" part.

This may be a long shot, but sometimes they pay off. I have often wondered how SV got on the Jeremiah Duggan affair, which was her opening salvo against LaRouche at Wikipedia. LaRouche's view is that the Duggan family was manipulated and exploited by a number of political heavyweights, including Baroness Symons, who is friendly with Dick Cheney and co., both ideologically, and commercially -- she was Minister of State for Defense Procurement 1999-2001, during which time she approved a $500 Million contract for Halliburton. Now the Baroness, in turn, got into a bit of scandal shortly thereafter, for advising an arms dealer on how to side-step the US embargo against Iran. This strikes me as the same general geopolitical territory that SV was in when she was fired by Salinger. I have noted that SV zealously guards the Wikipedia article on Baroness Symons.
guy
QUOTE(Joey @ Thu 5th October 2006, 11:43pm) *

MI5 then might better compare to Homeland Security in the US, though the US counterpart might have a very young intelligence mechanism. Wouldn't the functions of the newly organized Serious Organised Crime Agency, which took over responsilities of the former National Crime Squad and the National Criminal Intelligence Service compare somewhat with those of the FBI?

Sounds fair enough.


QUOTE(EuroSceptic @ Fri 6th October 2006, 4:15am) *

FBI => Scotland Yard

No, (New) Scotland Yard is the HQ of the Metropolitan Police. It rarely gets involved with matters outside London.


QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Fri 6th October 2006, 7:13am) *

I have noted that SV zealously guards the Wikipedia article on Baroness Symons.

A tangled web - this article was edited several times by RachelBrown, who was the editor accused by SV of being Poetlister's puppetmaster. SV does not seem to have reverted her edits.
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Fri 6th October 2006, 1:13am) *

You might want to take a second look at the "blah, blah, blah" part.

Here's the blah, blah, blah part:
QUOTE
Mr Taylor was acquitted but three associates Lt Col Eric Matson, Mr Harper and Michael Aspin were convicted and served sentences of between two and six years. A fifth defendant, Keith Flatman, a solicitor, was acquitted on the orders of a judge who said that he had no case to answer. All five had denied conspiring to obtain property by deception.

At their trial Mr Taylor, Matson, Harper and Aspin were accused of having fabricated an alleged involvement with Oliver North, the American military commander questioned by Congress over the "Irangate" affair. The prosecution said that the deal fell through because there had never been any missiles to sell and that the operation was a fraud.

In a further twist, documents shown to The Times reveal that another man involved in the Iranians' abortive attempt to aquire anti-tank missiles, Ben Banerjee, was a middle man for the Abu Nidal terrorist group, which had close links with the Iraqis.

He was never charged and died in March, 1991. Documents show that he helped the terrorist group to set up an account at the now collapsed Bank of Credit and Commerce International.

Mr Bannerjee owned two Buckinghamshire companies that regularly supplied arms to Abu Nidal. Documents submitted during the trial of the five men show that one of Mr Bannerjee's companies was involved in the 1985 plan to supply 5,000 TOW missiles to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.

The three convicted defendants claimed that Mr Banerjee was the link between them and Lt Col North, who was said to have initiated the deal to improve relations with Iran. The deal fell through, the men claimed, because Lt Col North backed away from it.

The jury was not told that Mr Taylor, now aged 60, an MI6 agent for ten years, had been told by his handler to proceed with the deal.

Now that we're on the subject of Oliver North, did you know that a reporter using NameBase led to the only charge that Oliver North was convicted on (it was later reversed due to that grant of immunity from Congress in exchange for North's worthless testimony)?

But SlimVirgin, when it suits her POV purpose on Wikipedia, is able to denounce me as unreliable: "Weed, I removed Daniel Brandt. He's not a credible source, not a journalist, and seems to write only for his own website i.e. he's a blogger.... My main concern about Brandt is that he self-publishes. The few things I believe he published in the 80s were in outlets with little, if any, editorial oversight. Herschel, do you know whether he has published anywhere reputable; or whether he is quoted in the mainstream press?"

The thing about Slim is that she doesn't try to be honest with herself when she expresses an opinion during edit wars, and she isn't interested in the truth. Any personal inconsistency on her part doesn't bother her. The only thing that interests her is saying and doing whatever is necessary to win a particular argument at a particular moment. She edits Wikipedia to increase her personal power.
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Wed 4th October 2006, 8:41am) *



But if this all checks out -- and for my part the Oliver North theory is not yet out of the running -- then it goes a long ways to answer why He/She/Ayesha would be so obsessed with having an artificial dissemination device for distributing disinformation, a tool at the ever ready whose propagators do not stop to check their sources.


Could you remind me what the Oliver North theory is? It sounds like it should certainly be factored in to this. Remember that North and his handlers developed the technique of QUANGOs (Quasi-Autonomous Non-Governmental Organizations,) which were private entities fabricated to covertly carry out activities on the behalf of governments or other agencies that wanted "plausibly deniability." Has SV's involvement transmogrified Wikipedia into some sort of QUANGO?
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Fri 6th October 2006, 10:31am) *

QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Wed 4th October 2006, 8:41am) *

But if this all checks out -- and for my part the Oliver North theory is not yet out of the running -- then it goes a long ways to answer why He/She/Ayesha would be so obsessed with having an artificial dissemination device for distributing disinformation, a tool at the ever ready whose propagators do not stop to check their sources.


Could you remind me what the Oliver North theory is? It sounds like it should certainly be factored in to this. Remember that North and his handlers developed the technique of QUANGOs (Quasi-Autonomous Non-Governmental Organizations), which were private entities fabricated to covertly carry out activities on the behalf of governments or other agencies that wanted "plausibly deniability". Has SV's involvement transmogrified Wikipedia into some sort of QUANGO?


Oh, that was just me foolin' around -- waybak when -- and no doubt I'll continue to do that. If I really thought that the antenom of the anonymph in question were a duly authorized officer of a duly authorized U.S. govermental agency operating in due performance of his or her duties, then I would of course knock it off, as I'm not really that kind of hero and/or anti-hero. But I have no reason to believe that an agent in good standing, acting in pursuit of any nation's interests, would conduct him-or-herself in such a looney (or tooney, eh?) fashion as we have known that Wiz behind the screen name of SlimVirgin to be acting.

Let me be perfectly clear about that ...

Jonny cool.gif
Placeholder
/
AV Roe
I think calling Slim an "agent" is a bit much and is unsupported. More likely she was either an unpaid informant or an asset. As a self appointed representative of the Lockerbie families she was likely in contact with the police and, having no loyalty to her employers, colleages, friends or the journalistic profession she would have no hesitation in telling the cops anything she learned from her ABC work if it suited her self-appointed mission (as well as inflated her self-importance).

I see no reason to believe that her role as an informant extended beyond Lockerbie and I think Herschell's thesis that her wikipedia activity, particularly in relations to LaRouche, is somehow proof that she is directed by some intelligence agency is not credible and has more to do with LaRouche's conspiratorial cosmology than reality.

If Slim's critics are to be credible we have to stay away from fairy tales and fantasy.
written by he who wrote it
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 6th October 2006, 4:31am) *

The next step in deconstructing Linda Mack's career might be to locate one Christopher Elliott, who shared a byline with Linda at least once in 1994.


a thought: since you know she's reading this board, and you know that she's nervous enough to attempt active interference with your investigations, you might want to delay announcing them publicly until it's too late. (if you were feeling sneaky you could announce them as future activities when they're already done deals, thus perhaps provoking her into another rash move.) is there a private area of this board, perhaps?

i've been watching this probe unfold for some time, and i find it very interesting indeed. (though i haven't felt the need to comment until now.) what are you going to do with this information? it'll crash and burn if you try to take it through wikipedia's internal mechanisms: being Linda Mack is not an offense, the evidence that she's an intelligence agent is interesting but not compelling, and concealing one's identity is not only allowed but encouraged. (also you're somewhat unpopular there; if you try to post a request for arbitration with this information i guarantee it'll be reverted, and i'd bet even money it would get tossed down the memory hole as well.)

are you planning to file a lawsuit, take this information to the press, or what?
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Fri 6th October 2006, 11:41am) *
If Slim's critics are to be credible we have to stay away from fairy tales and fantasy.

You have to admit, though, that the name change from Linda Mack to Sarah McEwan is just a tad suspicious. It's very possible that she's someone's agent. Except for her mistake of using the same email address for the Kings College list and the slimvirgin.com domain registration, we wouldn't have gotten this far. And don't forget, she's a consummate liar. She denied being the owner of the slimvirgin.com domain:

QUOTE
To: slimvirgin@gmail.com
Date: Oct. 23, 2005

Would you be interested in selling the slimvirgin.com domain? I think it's a cool name.

Thank you,
Ed McKay

__________________________

Date: Oct. 23, 2005

Hi Edward,
There's a slimvirgin.com? :-) I can only imagine. Sorry, it's not owned by me.
Cheers,
Sarah
__________________________

Date: Oct. 23, 2005

Sorry. Since you wiki from the Calgary, Alberta, Canada area, and slimvirgin.com is registered to someone from the same area, I assumed you were the owner.

-- Ed McKay

_________________________

Date: Oct. 24, 2005

Hi Ed,
Sorry, that's not me either. I think you're getting me mixed up with someone else. If you do a who-is search for the domain name, there may be an e-mail contact for the owner.

I think she could very well be someone's agent. She merely has poor tradecraft. One mistake she made was starting a biographical stub on me. If she's not an agent, then she probably sees herself as one. It was Kurt Vonnegut who said, "You are what you pretend to be."
Somey
Um, first of all I'd like to welcome AV Roe and written by he who wrote it (Can we just call you "writty?") to the forum... smile.gif

This whole issue of what Brandt is going to do with the information is certainly a compelling one, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily even a question that has to be asked. It's quite possible that this, i.e., posting it here for everyone concerned to see, is all he's going to do with it, and it may be all he has to do with it. If we accept that his primary (if not entire) purpose is simply to have the article about him deleted, which he's been asking for now for almost an entire year, then by pointing out SlimVirgin's various ulterior motives in being on Wikipedia in general, he also casts some doubt on the impulse behind specific actions she's taken, namely starting that article in the first place.

Also, I want to say this: The exposure of admins' names, and to some extent geographical locations, is constantly referred to by them as "stalking" and "harassment." Few people are concerned about privacy as much as I am, but if these Wikipedia people are going to be taken seriously, here and elsewhere, they should call it what it really is: EXPOSURE. Hopefully putting that in boldface and all caps will help them understand the crucial conceptual difference.

I hope nobody here is actively phoning or going around to these peoples' homes and offices to threaten them or insult them; there was a case of this and that person has been banned, justifiably so. That was an unfortunate incident, and I wish we could turn back time and somehow prevent it, but we can't. Still, that isn't what Brandt is really doing. What he's doing is the only reasonable thing he can do, under the circumstances. The fact is, these people are unassailable on Wikipedia itself, and they ignore criticism and complaints by "outsiders." Totally. So, the only legal way to get them to back off, back down, or anything else is to expose them, IRL. And yes, it is absolutely, 100 percent legal, as long as no unwanted direct contact is involved. (And even if there is contact, the complainant still has to prove malice.)

If they had an opt-out policy for BLP's, or a rational means of dealing with complaints from non-users (and I would include blocked users in that category), these problems just wouldn't happen in the first place. And eventually, they'll simply have to figure out that they're a website first, an anonymous community second, and an encyclopedia? A distant third, at best.

Simple as that.
AV Roe
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 6th October 2006, 5:08pm) *

You have to admit, though, that the name change from (name redacted) to Sarah (presumably-fake last name redacted) is just a tad suspicious. It's very possible that she's someone's agent. Except for her mistake of using the same email address for the Kings College list and the slimvirgin.com domain registration, we wouldn't have gotten this far. And don't forget, she's a consummate liar. She denied being the owner of the slimvirgin.com domain:


Millions of people change their names without being intelligence agents . Has anyone looked for a change of name certificate? One should be registered with either the British or Alberta government.

Where do you get (presumably-fake last name redacted) from in any case? It's quite possible that she hasn't actually changed her name and just uses Sarah as a pseudonym.

[ah, I see, Sarah (presumably-fake last name redacted) is the contact for slimvirgin.com ]
EuroSceptic
Administrative Contact:

S. (presumably-fake last name redacted)

for the rest, see
http://www.whois.net/whois_new.cgi?d=slimvirgin.com
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Fri 6th October 2006, 12:56pm) *
Where do you get (presumably-fake last name redacted) from in any case? It's quite possible that she hasn't actually changed her name and just uses Sarah as a pseudonym.
Her domain slimvirgin.com is registered to S.(presumably-fake last name redacted). By her own admission on various Wikipedia Talk pages, she reads Telegraph frequently (telegraph.co.uk, London; Daily Telegraph & Sunday Telegraph).

Twice she wrote a letter to the editor that was published:

One was in opposition to fox hunting:
"Hunters gain pleasure through inflicting suffering. They have no moral standing. Sarah (presumably-fake last name redacted), Canada"

Another about a British citizen who was taken hostage near Baghdad:
"Yes, the British government should negotiate to bring Ken Bigley home. It is the right thing to do, regardless of consequences. We should do the right thing. Sarah (presumably-fake last name redacted)"

QUOTE
are you planning to file a lawsuit, take this information to the press, or what?
Someday, after Wikipedia crashes and burns, someone will write a book about it. A chapter on SlimVirgin, assuming that we can develop more information by then, will guarantee that a publisher will find it compelling. Otherwise, we'll only be reading about Jimmy Wales, and Jimmy is simply not that interesting -- unless there are things about him that we still don't know.
TabulaRasa
Don't put too much on the domain registration. It smells of misdirection to me. SlimVirgin is well known for promptly erasing WP content that's inconvenient, and this is one thing over which she has total control. It would take about $10 to anonymize the registration contact data, and even though it would persist in our memories and hard drives, it would not be directly accessible to reporters or other investigators and anything we provided could be discounted as an invention.

I find the persistance of that information to be a sign that it was engineered by (first name redacted) to intentionally mislead and buttress some alternate mythology.
Daniel Brandt
QUOTE(TabulaRasa @ Fri 6th October 2006, 3:58pm) *
I find the persistance of that information to be a sign that it was engineered by (first name redacted) to intentionally mislead and buttress some alternate mythology.
Of course it was. They call that "cover" in the intelligence community. I don't understand your point.

No one disputes that she is (name redacted), but more recently has used the name Sarah (presumably-fake last name redacted). I don't think anyone disputes that she is now physically located in Canada. So I guess what you are saying is that the PO box and phone number may be fake. Okay, I have no problem believing that those are fake. But she's still in Canada somewhere, as indicated by the several times we've been able to capture her IP address.
Somey
QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 6th October 2006, 4:14pm) *
But she's still in Canada somewhere, as indicated by the several times we've been able to capture her IP address.

Being in Canada also makes her a more difficult target for people in the United States (still the majority of internet users), who might want to sue her for libel when she accuses them of "stalking" and "harassment," when all they're doing is trying to find out who's hurling insults at them.

The same goes for other countries, to some extent... I've noticed that when it comes to "troll-baiting" of US-based users, some of the most vociferously nasty people on WP seem to be in the UK, Australia, etc. - where they presumably don't feel particularly threatened by US libel laws.

I probably shouldn't say that, though, for fear of starting the War of 1812 all over again. blink.gif
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Fri 6th October 2006, 9:41am) *

I see no reason to believe that her role as an informant extended beyond Lockerbie and I think Herschell's thesis that her wikipedia activity, particularly in relations to LaRouche, is somehow proof that she is directed by some intelligence agency is not credible and has more to do with LaRouche's conspiratorial cosmology than reality.

If Slim's critics are to be credible we have to stay away from fairy tales and fantasy.


Well... what I am offering is an hypothesis, actually several of them, not a thesis. Nothing has been proven thus far, except that SV is (name redacted). I think all avenues of questioning ought to be explored. And so that you might have a little more background on this whole affair, I invite you to have a look at this Wikipedia talk page, which provides, among other things, the genesis of SV's conflict with Daniel Brandt.
AV Roe
If (first name redacted)/Sarah is a spook today it's most likely she informs to the police/security agencies on the animal rights movement. Remember, the Animal Liberation Front is considered a serious security concern by the British authorities.
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Tue 10th October 2006, 8:52am) *

If (name redacted)/Sarah is a spook today it's most likely she informs to the police/security agencies on the animal rights movement. Remember, the Animal Liberation Front is considered a serious security concern by the British authorities.


My thinking would be that if she is a spook, or more likely, a wannabe, the animal rights stuff would be cover, or a sideline. A spook of the sort that wants to swim in Iran-Contra infested waters would be unlikely to take Animal Rights seriously as an issue. Plus, informing on ALF would not explain her activity at Wikipedia (unless she was trying gain credibility with ALF, in order to penetrate it.)

You see why they call intelligence work the "wilderness of mirrors?"
AV Roe
I doubt her career at wikipedia has anything to do with any agency. I think you're just proceeding from a conspiratorial mindset.

(Name redacted)'s life has been one of unfulfilled promise culiminating in a journalistic career ruined by her own arrogance and betrayal of her friends and coworkers. She is using wikipedia as an outlet in which she can assert her self-importance and create the sort of environment that is denied her in the real world. If she were a spook she'd have better things to do than live in her parents home in the middle of nowhere spending 27 straight hours in front of a computer.
Somey
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Tue 10th October 2006, 9:00pm) *
If she were a spook she'd have better things to do than live in her parents home in the middle of nowhere...

Hmmm, I don't remember anyone saying anything about Slimmy living in her parents' home... Does anyone remember anyone else saying something about Slimmy living in her parents' home? So... just how exactly did you obtain this information? Do you know something we don't? Who are your sources? Are they high up in the chain of command, or are they just casual informants? And just how is this related to the campaign currently being planned by the Trilateral Commission to pave the way for the upcoming invasion of our future carrot-shaped alien overlords?

rolleyes.gif blink.gif unsure.gif






________________________
Seriously, though, remember that this all hinges on the Lockerbie/Flight 103 bombing. Both the intelligence community and the international press corps were all over that incident, and Slimmy would have been eager to help out, if only as a means of promoting herself without having to deal with public exposure of her private details. Maybe she figured someone in that big crowd of people shuttling between Lockerbie and elsewhere in the UK could help get her a job in the "trenches," maybe with someone like... Pierre Salinger? Who knows? But if there's any truth to this stuff at all, and I'm not saying there is, it could well be that Wikipedia is just a convenient way for Slimmy to relive those "glory years," back when she could threaten people whenever it pleased her, and actually mean it.

I edited this one a bit, btw.
AV Roe
I'm assuming it from her location. I don't know if she's literally in her parents home but for a Cambridge grad to return to Hickville, Alberta suggests some sort of major failure in London and a need to return to the nest.
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Tue 10th October 2006, 7:00pm) *

I doubt her career at wikipedia has anything to do with any agency. I think you're just proceeding from a conspiratorial mindset.

Linda Mack's life has been one of unfulfilled promise culiminating in a journalistic career ruined by her own arrogance and betrayal of her friends and coworkers.


Well, please bear in mind that there are many degrees and shades of spookiness -- see the beginning of this thread for Daniel Brandt and Joey expounding on the difference between "officers," "agents" and "assets," and I might add another, overlapping category, "journalists." I have suggested (suggested, mind you, not proven) that SV might be a wannabe, by which I mean that she was trying to cultivate a degree of spookiness because she wanted to find a journalistic niche where she could garner some prestige and be of some service to the real spooky types that she admires (see Cambridge Apostles as a point of reference.)
AV Roe
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Wed 11th October 2006, 3:18pm) *

QUOTE(AV Roe @ Tue 10th October 2006, 7:00pm) *

I doubt her career at wikipedia has anything to do with any agency. I think you're just proceeding from a conspiratorial mindset.

Linda Mack's life has been one of unfulfilled promise culiminating in a journalistic career ruined by her own arrogance and betrayal of her friends and coworkers.


Well, please bear in mind that there are many degrees and shades of spookiness -- see the beginning of this thread for Daniel Brandt and Joey expounding on the difference between "officers," "agents" and "assets," and I might add another, overlapping category, "journalists." I have suggested (suggested, mind you, not proven) that SV might be a wannabe, by which I mean that she was trying to cultivate a degree of spookiness because she wanted to find a journalistic niche where she could garner some prestige and be of some service to the real spooky types that she admires (see Cambridge Apostles as a point of reference.)


There is no evidence of any "spookiness" outside of the Lockerbie matter over a decade ago and that is easily explained through her self appointed status as the representatives of "the families".

Given that the LaRouche movement sees spooks and conspiracies everywhere I don't find your assessment of SV as a spook compelling or particularly interesting.

If she were interested in being a spook she wouldn't be living in the middle of nowhere. Yes, she's using wikipedia for ego-gratification and to sustain an inflated sense of self-importance that cannot be otherwise justified by the turn her life is taken and perhaps she sees herself on some sort of mission in regards to protecting and promoting certain views but the idea that she's using wikipedia as some sort of calling card so she can be hired by some intelligence agency is extremely silly.

Why is she interested in Duggan and LaRouche? Probably because her main interest seems to be anti-Semitism.
TabulaRasa
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Wed 11th October 2006, 7:31am) *

I'm assuming it from her location. I don't know if she's literally in her parents home but for a Cambridge grad to return to Hickville, Alberta suggests some sort of major failure in London and a need to return to the nest.

Then again, as Thomas Friedman explains (over and over and over again) in The World is Flat, the internet has largely taken geography out of the equation for industries where knowledge workers are the cogs. Tom Clancy's 1990s version of cocktail party spook-craft will probably never go away, but I suppose one can do as credible a job of agent provocateurism and intel gathering/analysis from Saskatoon as Langley.

In fact, Swalwell AB might even be favorable. Remember Robert Hansen, the FBI turncoat? He arranged for drops to take place in the park across the street from his home. That would seem foolish, until you consider any visual monitoring of the park by suspicious spook-hunters would naturally take place from Hansen's own living room (giving him plenty of warning that the existence of some form of espionage on someone's part was suspected).

Similarly, it would be much easier to spot a new, outsider presence in a place like Swalwell AB than Toronto.

If observation of "SlimVirgin" has taught me anything, it's that try as she might, she cannot help but be herself. If she got into some hot water and changed her name (as Daniel Brandt wondered early on) and took up residence in a suburb of Moose Jaw, I can't imagine she could spend more than a week pretending to be anything but herself.
Jonny Cache
I feel kinda silly joining this party -- but Halloween is fast approaching, so what the hex -- don't you think that real spooks can fake any IP they want?

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Wed 11th October 2006, 7:31pm) *
I feel kinda silly joining this party -- but Halloween is fast approaching, so what the hex -- don't you think that real spooks can fake any IP they want?

Not only real spooks, but fake spooks too!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the main argument behind Slimmy being an intelligence operative, or possibly even one or more intelligence operatives using the same account, is her in-your-face ideology, along with her almost maniacal tenacity (i.e., doing it as if her job or even life depends on it). Hold on - the two main arguments are ideology, tenacity, and almost non-stop editing activity. Damn... The three main arguments are ideology, tenacity, non-stop editing, and an almost fanatical devotion to her poodle. Oh bugger, I'll just have to post this again later...

Anyway, fascinating though it is, I just think it's pointless to even speculate on whether or not she's some sort of spy. It's not like she'd ever admit to something like that, and besides, like I've said before - if spies want to get involved with Wikipedia, that's their right. "Anyone can edit," remember?
Jonny Cache
No, seriously, isn't that what the CIA invented the Internerd for? -- I mean to bring down the Soviet Union by sending all those thousands and thousands of sockpuppet emails that made people think that they might be having a revolution, so they went out into the streets to find out if they were, and sure enough there were all these people flooding the streets, so they figured they must be really having one?

Jonny cool.gif
Somey
Naah, that was back in the 80's, when they only had fax machines to work with. Which isn't to say fax machines weren't instrumental in helping to spread the "let's overthrow the commies" message in the USSR; they actually were, somewhat. But the internet didn't penetrate the Soviet economic sphere until the mid-90's, and that was only so that its inventor, Al Gore, could use it to buy Russian mail-order brides online to use as White House interns. He and Clinton had to do that, because the English-speaking interns were starting to cause certain... problems.

George W. Bush actually wanted to abolish the internet as soon as he was elected, but he soon discovered that there was quite a lot of quite useful information about Spongebob Squarepants on it.
Herschelkrustofsky
QUOTE(AV Roe @ Wed 11th October 2006, 9:27am) *

Why is she interested in Duggan and LaRouche? Probably because her main interest seems to be anti-Semitism.


Then she would look elsewhere for it. For all her faults, she's no fool. I don't think that even Berlet believes the anti-Semitism stuff.
Jonny Cache
QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 11th October 2006, 11:57pm) *

George W. Bush actually wanted to abolish the internet as soon as he was elected, but he soon discovered that there was quite a lot of quite useful information about Spongebob Squarepants on it.



And here I thought the Dubya Cubed was created when Dubya had himself cloned to the third POTUS.

But maybe that was some other Fictional Universe Bordering On Realization (FUBOR), like the one where the Canadians pulled the same trick on the United States that Ronnie Raygun -- if I'm to take your word for it -- didn't have the TekYet to pull on the SovYets.

Don't tell anybody, but I think that this is probably what's really bugging the Chinese about Wikipedia. Up till now they've always been the biggest kid on the bloc, population-wise. But anybody who's been paying attention to the trends can project that the number of "usernyms" in Wikipedia will exceed the population of China 3 or 4 times over by 2010. And that's scaring the spongepants right off of them.

Jonny cool.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.