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Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 4:51pm) *

I also learned that fielding "fair competitive bids" is very time consuming and "a good deal of work".

Strange, I issue an RFP to multiple vendors about once a week, and they take about 2 hours each to write, plus allowing vendors about 2-3 days to respond. These are for (typically) $35K to $50K research projects.


Funny how this New-Fangled Participatory Bureaucratic Runaround 2.0 is so much like the Old-Fangled Non-Participatory Bureaucratic Runaround 1.0 …

Jon tongue.gif
TungstenCarbide
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 7:45pm) *

This gets better.

Immediately after I was booted from "Office Hours":

QUOTE
[13:08] * Jamesofur sets mode: +v sgardner
[13:08] * Abbasjnr (c4c9daf1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.241) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)�)
[13:08] * Sky2042_afk (~Sky2042@wikipedia/Izno) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:08] <Dakdadaah> Good evening from me
[13:08] <+sgardner> It's true! Someone is always awake :-)
[13:08] <killiondude> Why was he banned? I didn't think he was being obtuse.
[13:09] <aude> good morning sgardner!
[13:09] <killiondude> He actually came in to #wikimedia asking if that was okay to ask, and a few people thought it was okay.
[13:09] <Theo10011> Hi
[13:09] <dgultekin> Hey Theo
[13:09] * dferg (d4808a82@Wikimedia/Dferg) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:09] <+sgardner> Hi Katie, Theo :-)
[13:09] <+sgardner> Dakdadaah :-)
[13:09] * michi_cc (michi@pdpc/supporter/student/michi-cc) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with.
[13:10] <+sgardner> Steven's going to answer killiondude's question about Greg Kohs.
[13:10] <+sgardner> ooh, he is answering.
[13:10] <Nihiltres> killiondude: his question isn't intrinsically bad, but it's not helpful
[13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had.
[13:10] <killiondude> Are these office hours ever helpful, Nihiltres?
[13:10] * DiegoGrez (ElPadrino@186.20.34.121) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:10] * apergos (~ariel@wiktionary/ArielGlenn) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] * meganrhernandez (~megan@216.38.130.162) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] * erwin (~erwin85@wikimedia/erwin) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <Nihiltres> killiondude: I like to think so
[13:11] * Dragonfly6-7 (~test@bas1-montreal48-1176173479.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <+sgardner> While Steven is typing, maybe I will say some other stuff also.
[13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different.
[13:11] <killiondude> He was told to use IRC.
[13:11] * PeterSymonds (~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:11] <Dragonfly6-7> oh, but was kicked off?
[13:12] <@Jamesofur> the IRC discussion was meant for the mailing list as a whole
[13:12] <dferg> what's the topic for today's office hours, please? Thank you.
[13:12] * Abbasjnr (c4c9dafe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.254) has joined #wikimedia-office
[13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered.
[13:12] <killiondude> w/e, i don't care too much. I just find it disappointing. :-)
[13:12] * Theo10011 waves at dgultekin
[13:12] <+sgardner> So. The board met over the weekend, and SJ has published four resolutions from the meeting: one on Movement Roles II, one on trustee term length, one on fundraising principles and one on the five-year-targets. So I am happy to talk about that, or about any other topic associated with the board meeting.
[13:13] <+sgardner> And, I am happy to talk about any other topic as well, and I'm happy to answer the Greg Kohs question if you folks want me to.



StevenW ... it he this guy??
Image
Milton Roe
QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:06pm) *

StevenW ... it he this guy??
Image

StevenW and VanTucky would appear different IRC users, unless they are socks.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mikhai...dmins/User_list
TungstenCarbide
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 14th October 2010, 10:20pm) *

QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:06pm) *

StevenW ... it he this guy??
Image

StevenW and VanTucky would appear different IRC users, unless they are socks.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mikhai...dmins/User_list

The VanTucky link on that page goes to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Steven_Walling, a WMF employee.
Milton Roe
QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:24pm) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 14th October 2010, 10:20pm) *

QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:06pm) *

StevenW ... it he this guy??
Image

StevenW and VanTucky would appear different IRC users, unless they are socks.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mikhai...dmins/User_list

The VanTucky link on that page goes to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Steven_Walling, a WMF employee.

Doh! If you click on "StevenW" it goes to the same page. He's listed under two names on the IRC list. Silly me for assuming that two different listings and IRC names meant two separate users.
EricBarbour
Ooh, Steven Walling! The humorless dork pops up again!

Let me tell you about Steve!

(How does Jimbo's asscrack taste, Steve?)
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:45pm) *

This gets better.

Immediately after I was booted from “Office Hours”:

QUOTE

[13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with.
[13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had.
[13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different.
[13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered.



So what StewieW is saying is that the WikiMedia Foundation does not answer to The Public, but solely to “Good Faith” members of the cult.

I'm glad we finally cleared that up, but isn't that what we've been saying all along?

Jon Image
thekohser
I missed this closing word from Spider Hands:

QUOTE
[14:09] <+sgardner> Anyway: upshot -- likely at some point in the future we will develop an RFP policy, but it's not imminent. And I think it's fine for us, at this point, to experiment a little -- sometimes running RFPs when we think circumstances warrant it, and sometimes not running them when we think it's not warranted. That way we can learn how much work it is, whether it leads to useful outcomes, and so forth. In general, our goal is to get the best possible outcomes, and if RFPs don't help us do that, I would be less inclined to use them as a tool.


Other than when you have a project that maybe costs less than $5,000, and you're on a deadline for completion within the next week or two, WHEN EXACTLY is an RFP process not going to help yield the best possible outcomes?

What am I missing here?
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 11:10pm) *

What am I missing here?


Arachnophilia cthulhu.gif

Jon tongue.gif
Somey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 10:10pm) *
Other than when you have a project that maybe costs less than $5,000, and you're on a deadline for completion within the next week or two, WHEN EXACTLY is an RFP process not going to help yield the best possible outcomes?

Well, that depends on how you define "best," "possible," and "outcomes." Presumably in the WMF's case, "best" means "most likely to divert Foundation money to friends of Foundation employees." Meanwhile, "possible" means "whatever we can get away with." And, of course, "outcomes" means "the money's coming out, grab with both hands and bring your wheelbarrow!" smile.gif
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 11:10pm) *

I missed this closing word from Spider Hands:

QUOTE

[14:09] <+sgardner> Anyway: upshot — likely at some point in the future we will develop a BOPT (Blow-Out Preventer Testing) policy, but it's not imminent. And I think it's fine for us, at this point, to experiment a little — sometimes running BOPTs when we think circumstances warrant it, and sometimes not running them when we think it's not warranted. That way we can learn how much work it is, whether it leads to useful outcomes, and so forth. In general, our goal is to get the best possible outcomes, and if BOPTs don't help us do that, I would be less inclined to use them as a tool.


Other than when you have a project that maybe costs less than $5,000, and you're on a deadline for completion within the next week or two, WHEN EXACTLY is an BOPT process not going to help yield the best possible outcomes?

What am I missing here?


Her future employment aspirations?

Jon tongue.gif
Milton Roe
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:45pm) *

This gets better.

Immediately after I was booted from “Office Hours”:

QUOTE

[b][13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with.
[13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had.
[13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different.



Kohs is on the short list with Andrew Morrow and nobody else? ohmy.gif blink.gif confused.gif

Oh man, oh man, Jimbo just REALLY must not like the trailer-park jokes.

Hey Kohs, GRAWP didn't even make that list. In Stevie Wonder's mind, anyway.
thekohser
Meanwhile, Rand Montoya, the organizer of the failed 2009 Donor Study that never launched, still thinks he works for the Wikimedia Foundation, even though his last day there was over two weeks ago.
EricBarbour
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Fri 15th October 2010, 12:53am) *
Kohs is on the short list with Andrew Morrow and nobody else? ohmy.gif blink.gif confused.gif

So it seems. Greg has done a great job of pissing Wales off, it's almost a talent.

When someone, someday, writes an honest history of Wikipedia, Greg will deserve his own
chapter--not because he 'disrupted the glorious project", but because the treatment he received
from the Wiki-Faithful was more akin to a Stalinist purge than "dealing with a disruptor".
Even Grawp didn't receive such hatred.

Short form: there is no free speech on Wikipedia. Nor on anything run by Wikipedia people.
They are basically no better than book-burners.
Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sat 16th October 2010, 12:56am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Fri 15th October 2010, 12:53am) *

Kohs is on the short list with Andrew Morrow and nobody else? ohmy.gif blink.gif confused.gif


So it seems. Greg has done a great job of pissing Wales off, it's almost a talent.

When someone, someday, writes an honest history of Wikipedia, Greg will deserve his own chapter — not because he 'disrupted the glorious project", but because the treatment he received from the Wiki-Faithful was more akin to a Stalinist purge than "dealing with a disruptor". Even Grawp didn't receive such hatred.

Short form: there is no free speech on Wikipedia. Nor on anything run by Wikipedia people. They are basically no better than book-burners.


This is the thing that Wikipediots never get — that people will treat Wikipediots exactly the way that Wikipediots treat them. There are whole WP essays speculating on the motives of their "disrupters", when it's perfectly clear to any outside observer what the motivation is — all they'd have to do is ask — but they just keep dancing around the simple answer because they don't want to know the truth.

Jon dry.gif
thekohser
Anyone willing to be quoted on record about how the process for RFP/RFQ bidding is handled in your organization, please contact me at thekohser -at- gmail.com.

Thanks.
thekohser
QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 15th October 2010, 7:11am) *

Meanwhile, Rand Montoya, the organizer of the failed 2009 Donor Study that never launched, still thinks he works for the Wikimedia Foundation, even though his last day there was over two weeks ago.


It's been about eight months now... I wonder if Rand's money is starting to run out? He certainly has a cutely-written profile on LinkedIn! But, it doesn't look like the CTN pays its directors or corporate secretary.

The Wikimedia Foundation certainly does have a history of former employees not moving on to anything more substantial, doesn't it? I'm thinking of Danny Wool, Carolyn Doran, Brad Patrick, Brion Vibber (who returned to the WMF fold), and Mike Godwin. Any others I've missed? Is this a sort of pattern, or am I just cherry-picking? It's kind of like former head coaches of the Detroit Lions -- none move up the totem pole after their stint in the Motor City.
Somey
QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 31st May 2011, 12:06pm) *
The Wikimedia Foundation certainly does have a history of former employees not moving on to anything more substantial, doesn't it? I'm thinking of Danny Wool, Carolyn Doran, Brad Patrick, Brion Vibber (who returned to the WMF fold), and Mike Godwin. Any others I've missed? Is this a sort of pattern, or am I just cherry-picking?

In all fairness, if there were WMF employees who had gone on to better jobs, we probably wouldn't hear about them. Most companies don't make a public show of their technical and fundraising hires anyway, and the newly-hired person himself/herself isn't likely to make a point of publicly saying, "look at me, I used to work for the Wikimedia Foundation and now I'm a junior executive for {name of better-run, more respectable organization}."

Then again, it probably depends on the company. Most colleges and universities announce new hires in nearly all areas, for example - but colleges and universities are probably less likely than most to hire people from an outfit like the WMF.

QUOTE
It's kind of like former head coaches of the Detroit Lions -- none move up the totem pole after their stint in the Motor City.

But Matt Millen and Steve Mariucci both do a good job as TV analysts, at least...?
thekohser
QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 31st May 2011, 1:31pm) *

But Matt Millen...


That is a name that is never to be uttered, Somey. It brings great unrest to my household.
thekohser
Okay, here we go...

In only 10 months, "Kristin P." moved up from Executive Assistant at the WMF to Administrative Assistant at Facebook. (Horsey will approve.)
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